forgive the stupidity

Donna1969 · #1 20th January 2006, 07:24 AM

of this question but I am not "up to par" on showing etc and this question has been bothering me. I know that any "show" dog regardless of breed has to be an intact animal. That much I get. And I know that the judges always seem to give a little "feel" in the back, which I assume among other reasons is to "feel" that the dog is intact. Now, how exactly can anyone tell that a female is not spayed? There is no "feel" test. So (not that I would ever do this but I am just an inquisitive person) what would stop someone with a spayed female entering her into a show (of any sort) how could you tell one way or the other that she's spayed or not?

JulieM · #2 20th January 2006, 08:13 AM

Not a stupid question.

The answer is, you can't always tell if a female has been spayed. Sometimes there is a scar, and sometimes (as I learned here

) vets will tattoo the bitch when they do the spay, but sometimes you really don't know unless you open them up again. Even with scars/tattoos, the judges don't usually check specifically for those, though they might see bigger ones when they're going over the dog. There's always that chance that a fellow exhibitor will lodge a complaint, and then the judge/AKC rep will examine the bitch more closely so smaller scars or tattoos may be noticed.

The only thing that would stop a person from entering a bitch with no or a barely visible scar/tattoo in a show would be their own personal ethics.

dharmadoodle · #3 20th January 2006, 08:13 AM

I would say that the scar might give that one away.

Donna1969 · #4 20th January 2006, 08:34 AM

I thought about the scar giving it away but I know with Blizzy, her scar was hardly visiable. And certainly not when she was standing up. I figured, I never see a judge flip a bitch over to see if there was a scar or not

I was going to post in my original..besides morals and ethics, what would stop someone from showing a spayed female..took the words right outta my mouth Julie

Thanks for answering my question. I can sleep tonight. Stupid things like that drive me

until I get an answer.

abby's mum · #5 20th January 2006, 04:44 PM

The question to me would be why one would bother. Not that all finished bitches are bred but why would one spay and then show? The only advantage would be not coming into heat but still wouldn't make much sense. As for males, they are not checking precisly for the presence of testicles but for both of them.

Donna1969 · #6 20th January 2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abby's mum

The question to me would be why one would bother. Not that all finished bitches are bred but why would one spay and then show? The only advantage would be not coming into heat but still wouldn't make much sense. As for males, they are not checking precisly for the presence of testicles but for both of them.

Lets use this scenerio. Person gets a bitch, pays "pet quality" price and signs contract to spay and does. Time goes on, the female is a gorgeous and almost perfect specimen of Boxer (lets say the Breeder didn't see it at the time). Person realizes there is $ to be made if the female does well in showing(AKC/Eukenuba show awarded $50,000 to the Best in Show) and decides to show the dog. Money is the root of all evil. People have been know to do some pretty strange things for the almighty dollar.

As for the testicle check, I meant to say both testicles.

2 of Them · #7 20th January 2006, 06:08 PM

Donna-
Don't feel stupid, I asked the same question a few weeks ago. After all the talk about scars and tatoos, what about the majorly hairy breeds? There is no way I want to sift through all that hair! I wondered the same thing because as you spend time with your pups you realize that they have to be the most beautiful boxers in the history of the breed.

At least I think mine are. Both mine are spayed, but I always wonder how Tonks would do in a show ring. Haggy is not quite "show quality" but I still think she's quite a looker!!!

___________________
Hagrid- fawn, floppy, 2 years
Tonks- brindle, floppy, 1 yearish

Brutus and Amaya's Mom · #8 20th January 2006, 07:39 PM

Well-- when the judges are feeling "back there" they are probably looking at the tail set and rear more than female parts :-)

Truth is-- no one ever make money showing :-) Yes you can get 50,000 at the Eukanuba Cup but that was 1 dog this year. Normal shows may give $100 for a BIS and I guarantee far more than that was spent in entry fees, handlers and getting to the show. The boxer best of bred usually gets a Rosette- no money.

They say to get a CH on a boxer will run 5,000- 10,000 or more. Then to special them- show once they are champions to get points and invited to something like the Eukanuba cup I am sure they are paying about that per year.

By the way- to get invited to the Eukanuba cup you have to be in the top 25 of boxers last year. The handlers you saw out there were pretty big name handlers and all those dogs are out specialing right now.

There is no money in showing- if there is no one I know has figured out how to do it :-)

BoxerBubbles · #9 20th January 2006, 08:21 PM

i think it's a really good question myself and definitely see your point...
why do they have to be intact anyway?i know there's a reason behind it
but i know nothing about this kinda stuff.i know alot of "breeders" do
the showing,but what if someone wants to SHOW and not breed?

silvaheyes · #10 20th January 2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxerBubbles

i think it's a really good question myself and definitely see your point...
why do they have to be intact anyway?i know there's a reason behind it
but i know nothing about this kinda stuff.i know alot of "breeders" do
the showing,but what if someone wants to SHOW and not breed?

The whole point of showing is to make sure your dog is up to standard to breed.. If you spay/neuter your dog there generally is no point in showing it because you're not breeding it anyhow.

I'm sure you could show your dog if you wanted to or hid the fact that it was altered but there is no real point in doing so if the dog you're trying to show is just a pet since the point of going in the ring is for breeding purposes. Also like some others pointed out already, The money going toward it is A LOT more than what you get in return from winning.

Donna1969 · #11 21st January 2006, 06:36 AM

Maybe I have been misunderstood. I really DO get why people show, I know that most people put way more $ into it than they get back. I understand that it sounds dumb to spay and then show, I wasn't looking for an answer as to WHY someone would spay and show..my question was only..HOW could a judge tell if a female was intact..

Thanks for all the info.

3dognight · #12 21st January 2006, 07:54 AM

Aren't people required to present a certificate of some sort that states if the dog is altered or not? I would think that would be part of the process for the entry? I know nothing about showing....but I too was curious about why the dogs needed to be intact to "show". Now I know, but now I've come up with another question...

Once people show a dog and it wins the bare minimum (is it 16 pts??) in order to breed, do they continue to show or get out of showing satisfied that their dog is "qualified"?