Help with my Barf Plan

[SammiRajah]

Hello!

I have a three year old boxer and a six month boxer. My 3 year old baby continues to have trouble eating regular kibble, so I've finally decided to try the raw diet and see if that helps her out. However, I am a little bit intimidated with everything, so I was hoping for a little feedback about my concerns!

I plan to mainly start out with chicken backs, chicken necks, and turkey necks. These are the most economical for me right now.

Here are some of my concerns:
1) I am REALLY worried about my girl choking on the bones. I'm sure I'm just being overprotective, as I've read everywhere that it doesn't seem to present a problem.
2) If I substitute other kinds of meat (after the initial introduction) once a week, is that enough of a variety?

I have read about people offering various items such as eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc? What is the benefit of this and how would I go about adding that into the diet? Would I feed seperately, all together?

Also, I have read that some people don't give veggies. But most give offal. I believe offal is a necessary, right?

Should I serve all the RMD's, offal, and/or veggies as seperate meals or together?

I guess I want a good idea of what to DEFINITELY make sure gets into thier diet and what is optional. If I am going to feed 14 meals a week, what is the maximum amount that should be made up of a combination of necks and backs? What is the minimum amount of "other" meals? Does that make sense? I just want to make sure I provide them with the nutrition that they need!

[boxer]

OK - not much I can add about choking on bones. You've already read it A dog can choke on anything, including kibble. Bones don't present any more or any less risk than any other food.

Feeding just one thing for the first few weeks is fine. And then new things need to be introduced one at a time, so that you can identify anything that upsets your dog's system, he is allergic to, or that he just plain doesn't like.

But once that's all over and you're feeding a range of foods, you would need to feed something other than chicken rather more frequently than once a week (on average, that is - doesn't matter if the dog eats only chicken for a couple of weeks straight, but over time variety is important).

RMBs would make up somewhere in the region of 60-70% of the total diet. And whatever you use as the "main" RMB - probably chicken, since it is cheap and readily accessible should really only make up about 60% of the RMB total. So if you were feeding 10 RMB meals per week, six of them could be chicken and the other four should be something else (preferably a variety of something else's).

The remaining four meals in the week (as a general sort of rule) should be a mix of offal, fruits/vegetables, meat and extras such as fish, eggs, cottage cheese, etc. The point of eggs etc is that they are good nutrition and help to provide variety in the diet. Yoghurt is a probiotic and aids digestion. These are all good things for your dog to have (good for you too, incidentally).

You're right that not everyone gives vegetables - the amount fed would vary between zero and about 15% of the total diet. Offal though, is very important (the most nutritious part of a carcass, in fact) and usually makes up 15-20% of the total.

Exactly how people choose to feed all this varies. Some people can't feed meals that are completely or mostly vegetables, for example, because their dogs won't eat it. So those people are more likely to add just a little vegetable material to most meals, as the dog is more likely to eat it that way. Same goes for offal - some dogs will get runny stool if a whole meal is offal, so they're better fed just a little offal with most meals. It's really up to you and your individual dog as to what suits.

Assuming you didn't have any of those issues though, then a typical menu might look something like this:


DAY 1 AM - RMB(1) PM - Mix of offal, veggies, extras (choose a couple from eggs, flaxseed oil, fish oil, yoghurt, cottage cheese, etc)
DAY 2 AM - RMB(1) PM - RMB(2)
DAY 3 AM - RMB(2) PM - Mix of muscle meat, offal, veggies, extras
DAY 4 AM - RMB(1) PM - RMB(3)
DAY 5 AM - RMB(1) PM - Mix of offal, veggies, extras
DAY 6 AM - RMB(3) PM - RMB(4)
DAY 7 AM - RMB(1) PM - Mix of muscle meat, offal, veggies, extras


The numbers after the RMBs is to denote different sources - so RMB(1) is probably chicken, while 2, 3 and 4 are different meats (and likely different each week, depending on what you can find easily). Muscle meat is fairly important, especially if your main RMB is something like chicken necks or backs - a little more meat in the total diet is required. If you were using more meaty chicken parts instead, then less muscle meat would be required in other meals. And obviously, if you choose not to feed a great deal in the way of fruits/vegetables, then the meals that are notated as a mix of offal, veges and extras would simply exclude any vegetable component.

There are no hard rules about feeding raw though. What I've outlined above is simply typical of raw diet. Diets don't have to be balanced every single day (just as yours aren't) and they don't even need to be balanced every week. You could feed a whole week of solely chicken - it's just that the next couple of weeks after would need to include a higher-than-normal amount of non-chicken.

[SammiRajah]

Thank you so much, you've been a GREAT help!!!

Just one more question:

I found a good supplier of turkey necks, chicken necks, and chicken backs. As these aren't typical human consumption cuts of meat, I have no idea what to expect when I see them. Is there anything special that I have to do to prepare them for my dog's consumption right when I get them and/or right before I feed them?

[boxer]

No, there's not really anything much you need to do with them except hand them to your dog

Possible exceptions would be if the necks come with much skin attached (all depends on your supplier - sometimes they're skinless, sometimes not) or there is much fat/skin attached to the back (again, it is often already removed). If your supplier gives it to you with skin, then you might need to pull some of that off and discard it. No need to be too fussy, a bit of skin and fat won't hurt anyone. But if there's too much then it can cause a bit of upset tummy/gas/loose stool issues.

[Anna Begins]

That was extreamly helpful. Luka has been on RAW for a little over a week now and is doing well, however the learning continues. Thanks!

[SammiRajah]

You guy's have been great help, I really appreciate it so much!!

Another question:

Can I get some clarification on what "muscle" meat is? I have been reading posts that say ground turkey and ground beef is muscle meat. I always but 1/lb rolls of frozen ground turkey from the store for our own personal consumption? Does this count as muscle meat?

[gmacleod]

Yes, probably

Muscle meat really is flesh - as opposed to raw meaty bones. A steak, for example, or a chicken breast, is muscle meat. So is the meat on chicken parts such as thighs - which is why Debbie has noted that if you were feeding meaty chicken parts like thighs, there would be less need to add muscle meat to the diet as would be the case when feeding necks or backs. Ground turkey for human consumption will be largely muscle meat (there will be fat and possibly a bit of skin in there too) so would serve the purpose perfectly well.

[SammiRajah]

Sorry so many questions, but I have one more.
I just bought a case of turkey necks, chicken necks, and chicken backs. We are getting ready to go buy a freezer for the garage for just these things.

1) Should I immediately seperate these into serving sizes and transfer to freezer bags, or should I leave them in the box they came in until we are ready to use them?

2) Is there a maximum amount of time I should freeze them for? I don't want to buy too much meat and have some of it go bad?

Does anyone have any suggestions, tips, hints, or systems to make seperating and storing more convenient, or is it just something I'll have to learn along the way?

[gmacleod]

I think you'd find it easier to separate into smaller amounts to freeze. That way, when you defrost it, it won't go off in the refrigerator before it gets eaten.

I don't think you need to worry too much about maximum time for freezing. I would think that dog food would be perfectly good frozen for two or three months, if necessary.

Handy tips... Well, I think that's something you'll end up working out for yourself over time as to what works best for you. It might be easiest to separate things out into daily feed sizes initially, and later as you get good as 'guestimating' serving sizes, you could probably freeze in amounts large enough for two or three days. That cuts down on separating time And two or three days food is fine kept in the fridge after defrosting.

[Albie]

Definitely separate your RMBs into smaller portions. You might want to check with your supplier and find out if the cases of RMBs are fresh or frozen. This will help you plan ahead. I usually buy my RMBs fresh, but for some reason the last two cases I ordered were frozen. It took me and my husband an entire evening to separate and bag the two cases of chicken necks. My hubby made me swear I would never tell anyone that he sat around a huge box of chicken necks chiseling away at them for an entire Friday night Also, don't be surprised if you find a chicken head or two in there... the first time I picked one up it scared me half to death! Good luck with the switch, you'll be glad you made it.