Dog park incident

HaiducAgnita · #1 20th August 2008, 07:33 PM

So I took my 15 weeks old boy Haiduc to the dog park again, like we've done for the past 2-3 weeks.
He plays pretty good with every other type of dog, just sometimes scared of the big dogs with lots of energy, and some mouthing.
Well, this time around, a standard poodle, almost twice his size, kept bothering him. When Haiduc tried to run and play with some other dogs, he'd come and knock him to the ground to the point that Haiduc went by a tree to get away. The poodle followed him, and again kept running into him and knocking him over.
A few minutes later, he again tried to play with a buddy of his, poodle on him again. So he basically took down the big poodle and started mouthing him and growling. I think it was aggressive growling and more than mouthing, because I took them apart and I put my finger in his mouth by accident and he caught it with one of the big sharp teeth and it hurt quite a bit (though no blood).
The poodle went away, and he played nice, no growling/biting with any of the 20+ dogs. Poodle came back, Haiduc went right for him, growling, so poodle left and Haiduc played nice again.
Is this a problem I should be concerned about and try to get some outside help, or is it just him protecting himself? This is the first time ever I saw him like that, and he snapped out of it quickly.
Thanks!

krayne · #2 21st August 2008, 08:05 AM

I wouldn't be conerned. That's happened w/ our dog (but she's two years old) at a bark park - sometimes two dogs just don't like each other and you don't really know why. I think that one dog's play could be interpreted as threatening by another dog. The poodle was probably trying to play, but it was too rough for your little one.

ehayes21 · #3 21st August 2008, 09:14 AM

That is awfully young to be taking your pup to the dog park. Has he had all of his vacs?
If so, I would keep him in the small dog area until he gets a little older. Some of the bigger dogs don't really know how to play with small pups and he might end up getting injured. I've seen it happen.

AbbeyRoad · #4 21st August 2008, 09:20 AM

Without having been there it is kind of hard to tell if the poodle was trying to play or was trying to assert his dominance. Usually when they play wrestle one will get knocked down they'll wrestle around a bit and then the one on the bottom is let up and they jump at eachother and wrestle standing and then one gets knocked down again (sometimes the one that was down before sometimes the other one). If the poodle was knocking your pup down and no letting him up this sounds like it may have been more agressive. Usually if they knock the pup down and he doesn't play back then they lose interest quickly. The owner of the poodle probably should have taken him off and directed his attention elsewhere instead of letting him continue to bombard your pup. If the poodle continued to go back to the pup even after his attention was diverted elsewhere then it sounds to me kinda like he was picking on him. After awhile your pup just got fed up and fought back. Not necessarily the desired behavior, but it sounds like he wasn't given another option. In the future I would suggest that if there is a dog that continues to knock him down and not let him up, ask the owner to divert his attention so your pup can get a break. If its attention can not be diverted by a toy or another dog and he continues to come back to your pup, then you can always leave. The dog park will always be there later and it is better than someone getting hurt.

HaiducAgnita · #5 21st August 2008, 10:52 AM

It's probably true that they might not like eachother, but because the poodle wasn't playing nice.
He is indeed small as far as mentally developed, but he's pretty big phisically, at least 25lbs, and he doesn't get bullied around. He plays nice with dogs his size, but he also plays great with bigger dogs, this is the first time this happened. He had 2 sets of shots (before that he was only interacting with the puppies in the class), and he's getting his 3rd set next week.

AbbeyRoad that's exactly what happened, the poodle wouldn't even let him stand up after Haiduc was on his back and still, a couple of times. The owner took him to another part of the park, and he still came back and bothered Haiduc, and after a couple of these Haiduc took him down.
We never leave him alone, I always go around where he is so I can make sure that he doesn't get in trouble, but this is the first time this happened, so I wasn't sure if it was just play, obviously I will stop other dogs from getting aggresive with him.

BetsyB · #6 21st August 2008, 12:14 PM

It is really too early to be taking your pup to a dog park! There are sooo many diseases and parasites floating around a dog park and your dog probably has a pretty weak immune system still. I'm all for minimal vaccinations and even vaccine free, but a 15 week old baby has a very big chance of catching something awful should they be exposed, and your dog is being exposed to numerable dangerous germs/illnesses. Also, keep in mind that he is at a very critical socialization period, and even one incident like the one you're describing with the poodle could cause a lifelong fear. The dog park is a pretty dangerous place to go with an adult dog even, since you never know who will be there owner or dog wise, and therefore can't protect your dog from others. You have no way of knowing if the other dogs there have any aggression issues and you can't trust that every owner is a responsible owner. Your pup could be injured by play, or even attacked.
Socialization is extremely important in this period for your pup, but careful socialization only. Expose him to as many different people, sizes, races, ages as possible. Expose him to people wearing hats, carrying umbrellas, holding newspapers. Take him for car rides and walks in the neighborhood by all means, but don't bring him places like dog parks or pet stores where the diseases are rampant! Absolutely socialize him with other dogs too, but make sure these are controlled meetings with dogs who are healthy and owners who are responsible.

ehayes21 · #7 21st August 2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetsyB

It is really too early to be taking your pup to a dog park! There are sooo many diseases and parasites floating around a dog park and your dog probably has a pretty weak immune system still. I'm all for minimal vaccinations and even vaccine free, but a 15 week old baby has a very big chance of catching something awful should they be exposed, and your dog is being exposed to numerable dangerous germs/illnesses. Also, keep in mind that he is at a very critical socialization period, and even one incident like the one you're describing with the poodle could cause a lifelong fear. The dog park is a pretty dangerous place to go with an adult dog even, since you never know who will be there owner or dog wise, and therefore can't protect your dog from others. You have no way of knowing if the other dogs there have any aggression issues and you can't trust that every owner is a responsible owner. Your pup could be injured by play, or even attacked.
Socialization is extremely important in this period for your pup, but careful socialization only. Expose him to as many different people, sizes, races, ages as possible. Expose him to people wearing hats, carrying umbrellas, holding newspapers. Take him for car rides and walks in the neighborhood by all means, but don't bring him places like dog parks or pet stores where the diseases are rampant! Absolutely socialize him with other dogs too, but make sure these are controlled meetings with dogs who are healthy and owners who are responsible.

100% agree.

HaiducAgnita · #8 21st August 2008, 03:04 PM

There is no other way to socialize him with other dogs other than the dog park, on the street we only see one dog maybe once a week, and even then, they are not so friendly.
From reading around here and in books I got, they are better protected after 2 sets of shots, but I understand that he's not fully protected until the 3rd set. I just wanted to make sure he's socialized well with other dogs. As far as humans, we did what you mentioned and he's great with people, he loves everyone, from small children to older persons etc.
He hasn't had any negative experiences, prior to the one I mentioned in this thread, but even after that, we stayed for another 30 mins and he played great and was very social, the incident didn't really affect him, as far as I can see right now. And he wasn't bitten and he didn't cry at all, though he was bothered.

ehayes21 · #9 22nd August 2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaiducAgnita

There is no other way to socialize him with other dogs other than the dog park, on the street we only see one dog maybe once a week, and even then, they are not so friendly.
From reading around here and in books I got, they are better protected after 2 sets of shots, but I understand that he's not fully protected until the 3rd set. I just wanted to make sure he's socialized well with other dogs. As far as humans, we did what you mentioned and he's great with people, he loves everyone, from small children to older persons etc.
He hasn't had any negative experiences, prior to the one I mentioned in this thread, but even after that, we stayed for another 30 mins and he played great and was very social, the incident didn't really affect him, as far as I can see right now. And he wasn't bitten and he didn't cry at all, though he was bothered.

There are other ways to socialize other than dog parks - much BETTER than dog parks, in fact - Those are more training classes or planned playdates with other canine friends. IMHO dog parks are a HORRIBLE place to socialize your dog. Believe it or not it doesn't take very long for bad behavior to rub off on your dog. There are meetup groups you can find, members on this board you can plan playdates with, etc...it's not hard, you just have to look.

AbbeyRoad · #10 22nd August 2008, 10:16 AM

I think there are a lot of different opionions on dog parks, the same way there are a lot of different types of dog parks, & dog owners.

When Abbey was really young we primarily socialized her through puppy classes. We have only lived in our area for a year and a half and have very few friends in the area with dogs or at least few friends that are "dog people" and think that socialzing their dog is important. When the puppies in class were young the class provided adequate interaction, but as they got older and once they had all of their vaccinations we as owners wanted to find a place where they could just "play" and be dogs. None of us had yards that were big enough to really give 5+ dogs enough space to play so we decided to find a dog park where we could bring them (most regular parks in the area won't allow off leash dogs). I think the dog park has been an amazing place to socialize Abbey. She has had almost no negative experience up until this point. The owners of the other dogs that she primarily plays with have the same thoughts on training as my husband and I do (positive reinforcement, etc.) and none of us tollerate behavior from our dogs or other dogs that we feel is not appropriate, whether this means saying something to the other owner, or leaving the park. And honestly this seems to be common of the majority of the dogs that visit the park. Even the most careful owner will probably come across a "bad" situation at some point or another. To me it is more important to make sure that Abbey has good social skills than it is to shelter her in an attempt to protect her from every possible bad thing that might go wrong. I'm always open to knew ways to positively socialize her (which is why I posted yesterday looking for people in IL), but I don't think that just because the place is a dog park that it is automatically filled with aggressive unruley dogs and irresponsible owners.

HaiducAgnita · #11 22nd August 2008, 10:41 AM

Right now he won't be going to the dog park until he gets his 3rd set of shots, and hopefully he didn't get anything from the other dogs, we only went 4-5 times.
I was pondering about starting a thread about boxer meeting in the area, so hopefully there are people around here that I can have my boy Haiduc play with.

SILLY6PAK · #12 23rd August 2008, 05:33 PM

oh my that is awfully young even if you like dog parks, which I definately do not.

When I was so gle and only had one dog I mistakenly took my well rounded 6 month old pup to the dog park. I too thought I needed to socialize. I Think it took about 3 months to have a dog aggressive pup. Never again.

Unless you have an extremely well run dog park I would avoid them lime the plague.