Boxers do bad with high protein and RAW diet?

[jboboxer]

Originally Posted by dsmit

I feed Tyson the Orijen large breed puppy over the Orijen puppy food because it has a slightly lower calcium and phosphorus levels with a lower Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio. It has nothing to do with whether a boxer is a large or medium breed. It is a breed that is known to have HD problems if weight is not controlled or genetically inherited.

To answer your question, high protein food is fine for your puppy. The calicum and phosphorus levels are the area of concern.

I may get the large breed one next time. She has red mange, but her coat is looking a million times better than before while on orijen

[jboboxer]

Is it possible her coat can change in as little as 3 days from changing her food? Roxy has mange, so it might sound funny, but even though her coat is thin, it looks really really nice and we haven't changed much except in the last 3-5 days we have been feediner her Orijen, which seems kind of fast to notice a difference

[dsmit]

It is possible. All dogs react differently to food. Today is the last day for me to mix the old food with the Orijen. His coat condition is not as bad as Roxy's but I am seeing good results, it feels and looks better.

[ELubas]

Originally Posted by jboboxer

I have been reading a book by Dr. boogle I think his name is and he has a chapter dedicated on how high protein diet increases aggression.
Then last night I was watching Michael Vick's case and they mentioned that he would do all these things to increase their dogs aggression for dog fighting and one thing that was mentioned was that they were being feed a really high protein diet.

This one has been floating around for years too! Dr Nicholas Dodman also promotes this theory. At any rate it was surely the least of Vick's dogs problems But if it were true then all dogs fed raw should show increased aggression and that certainly is not true. I feed raw to my girl and can only say that of all my boxers she definetely seems the healthiest. High energy, no allergies, no tummy trouble, shiny coat and eyes, and I use both frozen raw and then just stuff I prepare myself. Like gmacleod says, you need to find what works for your pup but based on my experience I will never feed kibble again. As for it being complicated it is all about variety and balance. I don't feed grain so it is pretty simple for me. Whatever you decide I wish a long and happy life to your pup

[jboboxer]

Originally Posted by ELubas

This one has been floating around for years too! Dr Nicholas Dodman also promotes this theory. At any rate it was surely the least of Vick's dogs problems But if it were true then all dogs fed raw should show increased aggression and that certainly is not true. I feed raw to my girl and can only say that of all my boxers she definetely seems the healthiest. High energy, no allergies, no tummy trouble, shiny coat and eyes, and I use both frozen raw and then just stuff I prepare myself. Like gmacleod says, you need to find what works for your pup but based on my experience I will never feed kibble again. As for it being complicated it is all about variety and balance. I don't feed grain so it is pretty simple for me. Whatever you decide I wish a long and happy life to your pup

Does the raw food turn their poop white? It's what the lady at the store was telling me and I mentioned that raw food should be higher in protein than what's in kibble and she said it's a percentage and adding other stuff increases the percentage. I'm not sure if it's true or not.

Actually I think the book I read was from dodman............ is there a few dogs on the cover of the book?

[jboboxer]

Maybe it's coincidence, but we've been giving Roxy orijen for one week now and she's now barking as she never did before and trying to bite everybody. Could be complete coincidence on the timing she's acting up, but kind of makes me think about the reports about high protein.

[kayboxer]

Originally Posted by jboboxer

Maybe it's coincidence, but we've been giving Roxy orijen for one week now and she's now barking as she never did before and trying to bite everybody. Could be complete coincidence on the timing she's acting up, but kind of makes me think about the reports about high protein.

I've fed raw and high protein kibble. I've never noticed any agression issues with either. I guess what I tend to think about is cancer and boxers. Cancer feeds on carbs. Grains are high carb so that is one reason I buy grainless. I know veggies and fruits are also carbs, but they also contain other vitamins and antioxidents that are better than grains. I try to limit the grains in my dogs diets. I feed Wellness CORE and my male does well on it. It is not as high protein as most of the grainless foods. I do add meat to their meals also. My pup is on Welness Super 5 and I will switch her when she reaches a year to CORE. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find the perfect diet. Every dog is different, and everyone's opinion varies. Just find what is right for your pup and your peace of mind. What about skin kids that eat more protein? My son won't touch a veggie (heaven knows I've tried) and he is a meat eater. I definately don't consider him agressive or a bully. What about high protein fad diets for people? Did it increase the violence in America? Don't think so. I know people and dogs are totally different and not of the same species, but it just sounds crazy to say protein promotes agressiveness. One more thing, many people on this board have had boxers for years, even as children, and I really believe they might know a bit more than then so called "experts" who write those books.

[ELubas]

Originally Posted by jboboxer

Does the raw food turn their poop white? It's what the lady at the store was telling me and I mentioned that raw food should be higher in protein than what's in kibble and she said it's a percentage and adding other stuff increases the percentage. I'm not sure if it's true or not.

Actually I think the book I read was from dodman............ is there a few dogs on the cover of the book?

Dodman has written a number of books, one recently, and has always preferred a low protein diet. He works with agressive dogs and does wonderful , positive training, but he and I part company on this theory. And, yes, you can see white in the poop from the bone. My girl just has smaller, former poop on raw. As for kibble vs. raw depending on the food you feed you could get a higher protein with kibble, but it would be unlikely. Like I say, I do not feed grain so Ny's diet is made up of various proteins and some veggies- so I am sure it is a higher percentage of protein than most kibble. I never thought I would go raw and now I wish I had done it years ago.

[jboboxer]

Originally Posted by ELubas

Dodman has written a number of books, one recently, and has always preferred a low protein diet. He works with agressive dogs and does wonderful , positive training, but he and I part company on this theory. And, yes, you can see white in the poop from the bone. My girl just has smaller, former poop on raw. As for kibble vs. raw depending on the food you feed you could get a higher protein with kibble, but it would be unlikely. Like I say, I do not feed grain so Ny's diet is made up of various proteins and some veggies- so I am sure it is a higher percentage of protein than most kibble. I never thought I would go raw and now I wish I had done it years ago.

I was actually just reading a study on aggression and high protein and I guess some believe it's Tryptophan in combination with high-protein, but not high protein by itself.

I googled to see if I could find the study on Tryphtophan with high-protein diet and found this, which you may find interesting:

Companion Animal Behavior Program

Health/Genetics and Aggression

Articles on specific breeds

DeNapoli JS, Dodman N, et al. 2000. Effect of dietary protein content and tryptophan supplementation on dominance aggression, territorial aggression, and hyperactivity in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc. Aug 15;217(4):504-8.
Abstract:
To evaluate the effect of high- and low-protein diets with or without tryptophan supplementation on behavior of dogs with dominance aggression, territorial aggression, and hyperactivity. DESIGN: Prospective crossover study. ANIMALS: 11 dogs with dominance aggression, 11 dogs with territorial aggression, and 11 dogs with hyperactivity. PROCEDURE: In each group, 4 diets were fed for 1 weeks each in random order with a transition period of not < 3 days between each diet. Two diets had low protein content (approximately 18%), and 2 diets had high protein content (approximately 30%). Two of the diets (1 low-protein and 1 high-protein) were supplemented with tryptophan. Owners scored their dog's behavior daily by use of customized behavioral score sheets. Mean weekly values of 5 behavioral measures and serum concentrations of serotonin and tryptophan were determined at the end of each dietary period. RESULTS: For dominance aggression, behavioral scores were highest in dogs fed unsupplemented high-protein rations. For territorial aggression, [corrected] tryptophan-supplemented low-protein diets were associated with significantly lower behavioral scores than low-protein diets without tryptophan supplements. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: For dogs with dominance aggression, the addition of tryptophan to high-protein diets or change to a low-protein diet may reduce aggression. For dogs with territorial aggression, tryptophan supplementation of a low-protein diet may be helpful in reducing aggression.

[ELubas]

Thanks, yes, I have seen that. It is one of Dodman's. I actually consulted with him on my girl Nysa, who has shown dog on dog aggression all her life, and while he helped us immensely i just do not buy the low protein theory. In that study, for instance, there is no attention paid to what kind of behavorial work the owners were doing. In other words were they all working on a behavorial program at the same level and consistency? If so how do those dogs compare? Also, were there any other contributing factors? Did they limit the dogs' access to triggering events-did they all do this to the same extent. I know my girl's threshold and if I carefully observe it she will have no outbursts. Too many variables for me to be willing to put my girl on a sub standard diet, which for a dog I feel low protein is unless thier health issues demand it. I would rather focus on positive behavorial techniques. But I am a nutrition nut as I have lost two boxers very young and I swear this girl is going to be trash talking strange dogs when she is 15