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  #1  
Old 27th October 2009, 08:09 PM
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Smile Passing undigested food in stool... is this normal?

Kona has animal protein and grain allergies. She has tried numerous 'holistic' hypo-allergenic' diets including a a vegetarian dry kibble... reactive to them all but doing great on homecooked in which I use a CrockPot. (Sweet potato, potato, turnip, parsnips, carrot, broccoli, and peas) She also gets a lentil, chickpea and fava mash which I incorporate into the root mix. Oh, I also add olive oil, garlic, digestive enzymes and sea salt. She is healing and her coat is looking fantastic... no hives for 6 weeks now! First time in her life... she is now 5.

Here is the problem. She drinks and poops excessively and is losing weight. Also her stool appears to have undigested matter. Has anyone else encounter this? As soon as she eats she typically has to go to the bathroom. She never had this problem with pre-made dog food. Is this normal?

Any advice would be great.
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  #2  
Old 28th October 2009, 11:27 AM
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Is your dog a vegan? If not, where's the meat in the diet? Is the allergies affected by ALL meat? That would be rare, but not impossible. Chicken seems to be a fairly common allergen. But there is always beef, lamb, venison (low allergen), beaver, turkey, small game, etc....

Also, a dog to poop right after a meal is pretty normal. Losing weight is not. So I would opt to add some good meat into your mix. IMO vegetarian diet for a dog is inappropriate. They need meats. You can buy 100% meat in a can or you can add your own. But I think meat added just may be the one ingredient you are missing in his meals.

Some other homecookers will chime in or check the homecooking/raw threads. Lots of hidden answers there.
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Last edited by LILYLARUE; 28th October 2009 at 11:29 AM.

 
  #3  
Old 28th October 2009, 03:25 PM
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No she is not a vegan. She is seeing a Nautropathic Vet who is sorting out her allergies and is limited to these food items... for now. We will be adding back fish in the next month or two into the diet. There is protein in the lentils/beans but not enough for the long term.

I'm more concerned about the undigested matter. I'm wondering if there might be some underlying illness/dysfunction that I don't know about. Have you ever seen undigested food passed? She also poops massive amounts and is always hungry. I'm shocked how much she passes.

I've read all the other posts and haven't seen anyone else question this problem.

 
  #4  
Old 28th October 2009, 04:16 PM
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I have seen my girls pass undigested food before, usually after they have gotten into something or been given table scraps. It's possible that your girl is passing so much undigested food because she's eating a diet right now made entirely of plant matter, which canines generally have a harder time digesting.

Food allergy and/or food intolerance are often associated with increased fecal matter. Hyperthyroidism can also cause increased fecal matter and increased hunger, but this condition is very rare in dogs, plus, given Kona's history with allergies I would lean towards some sort of food allergy/intolerance as the cause for her large and frequent bowel movements.

Does Kona get any treats or supplements along with her special diet? What kind of toys does she play with or chew on? Is she on HW preventative or flea preventative?

What other allergies (contact, environmental, etc.) has your vet ruled out? What other health problems have been tested for and ruled out?
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  #5  
Old 28th October 2009, 06:47 PM
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The only treats she gets are roasted potatoes/yams. Medications/Supplements: Vitamin A, Zinc, VanectylP (sp?, weaning her off) and 5mg Synthroid (she was only borderline hypo before we started the diet). The vet has taken her off HW meds and all other shots. The only way we could control the outbreaks/infections for years was using antibiotics and higher doses of VanetylP. The antibiotics and VP became ineffective. She has been on almost every good brand name dog food the exists.

She is diagnosed with hypothyroidism and a immune disorder. If she is stressed, rolls in grass, rubs a tree, runs through wild flowers... she breaks out in hives. If a dog on the other side of the street barks at her the wrong way and she gets hives.

Right now her coat is soft, shiny and healing. She looks fantastic on the outside. We've never seen her look this good and her energy is high.

She doesn't play all that much with her toys anymore. She will only grab one to welcome us or guests at the door. Her toys are standard fabric squeaky toys and Latex.

We have never had Kona officially tested. I was told that the test wasn't all that accurate and before they tested she would have to be off all meds for minimum 4 months and on a strict white fish and rice diet. A few years back, we completed the diet w/no meds for four months (it was supposed to clear everything up) and she still broke out in hives really bad... she had to go back on the meds.

It's been a struggle to say the least. I absolutely love this little thing beyond belief. (I rarely even cook for myself or my husband).

I some way, I'm glad to hear that it might just be all the plant matter and she's having a difficult time digesting it. You bring up a good point... maybe I will have her tested. I'm trying to get her down to half a VP/day but she responds so quickly to an outbreak that it makes me nervous.

 
  #6  
Old 29th October 2009, 06:32 AM
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I homecook and notice undigested veggies passing through, usually peas and corn. The protein in your girl's diet comes from the lentil/chickpea/fava mixture?

Can you not add dairy such as yogurt or cottage cheese? Eggs? You said you've tried whitefish with no meds, can you feed whitefish with meds? Do you add any type of bone/calcium to her diet?

My girl has an autoimmune disease and is on meds. I have to be careful what she is fed or she will end up with an upset tummy.

I hope you find an answer and a food that works for your girl.
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  #7  
Old 29th October 2009, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
I'm more concerned about the undigested matter. I'm wondering if there might be some underlying illness/dysfunction that I don't know about. Have you ever seen undigested food passed? She also poops massive amounts and is always hungry. I'm shocked how much she passes.
I think the thing you need to keep in mind with this temporary diet is that you're feeding things that dogs cannot digest very easily. Dogs do not produce the digestive enzyme cellulase, which is what is required to break down the cellulose cell walls of plant material. So it is not really that great a surprise that she (a) is passing large amounts undigested, and (b) having trouble keeping on weight.

Things you could do to help would perhaps include cooking your vegetables for much longer - that is, do as much of the work in breaking things down for her as possible. That will help enable her to digest the vegetables.

I can imagine that you won't find a great many - or any - threads on this topic specifically. That because feeding a dog a vegetarian diet is not very common BUT there are actually a great many threads on the site that mention this sort of thing indirectly. For example, kibble-fed dogs produce significantly more waste than raw fed dogs. Why? Because kibble is largely made up of plant/grain material that, even in a highly processed form, are not very digestible by dogs and hence much of it passes straight through as waste. Dogs fed primarily on raw meat/bones, conversely, digest the vast majority of their food and produce very little waste as a result. Those raw feeders who DO include vegetable matter in their dog's diets find that they have to puree the veges - or else they pass right through, pretty much in the condition they went in. In short, even if not the major topic of threads, your issue is actually quite well known.

Since the vegetables are the main thing your dog is currently eating, I'm not sure that it's practical for me to suggest that you (a) cook them to the point of disintegration or (b) cook them less excessively, but then puree them. Would she still eat them in that form? If you think she would, then that is something to try. The problem here is very likely just difficulty in digesting what she's getting, so if you can help that process along a bit, very likely you'll at least reduce the problem (I doubt you'll eliminate it completely though, until such time as you can reduce the amount of plant matter that is going in).
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  #8  
Old 1st November 2009, 09:59 AM
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Since the vegetables are the main thing your dog is currently eating, I'm not sure that it's practical for me to suggest that you (a) cook them to the point of disintegration or (b) cook them less excessively, but then puree them. Would she still eat them in that form? If you think she would, then that is something to try. The problem here is very likely just difficulty in digesting what she's getting, so if you can help that process along a bit, very likely you'll at least reduce the problem (I doubt you'll eliminate it completely though, until such time as you can reduce the amount of plant matter that is going in).[/QUOTE]

I homecook for Mack and Lulu. The vegetables with "casings" like peas, beans, corn (I don't use corn) will pass right through if they aren't broken up in some way. The bulk of vegetables I cook are frozen. I let them thaw in the bag, then run through my food processor (you can also use a blender). The ground veggies are then dumped into a pot of boiling water/broth. I turn off the heat and just let them sit for a while to lightly cook.