No Obedience

jagresti · #1 20th March 2012, 10:47 AM

I apologize in advance but this is a general question that I'm sure you all have read before, but I could not find a post on it. We just brought Sophie home Saturday afternoon, so I assume people will say it is too soon to tell, but she is very timid around me and will not listen at all. She is 17 1/2 weeks old and about 25 - 30 lbs, so not a baby pup anymore. I thought that would make a difference, since I did not have the time or schedule to devote to a real baby (7- 8 weeks old). She seems ok with the kids and my girlfriend, but will not come when I call her, but when I ignore her and walk away, about 75% of the time, she will follow me outside, back inside or wherever in the yard. Then I turn to pet her or reward her and she's off - usually running away back to her cage. She will chase the kids all over the yard, jump on them, etc. without a care in the world. They will pet her, hug her, roll around with her and she will basically act like a puppy. I assume she is frightened by my size (6'2", 200 lbs) or my deep voice? I dunno. She has been the same since the moment we brought her home.

My question is how long should I expect this to continue? How long until she learns I am her master, not a threat, learns her name, to take to a leash, come when called, etc. I am not looking for any crazy tricks or commands from her, just the basic ones. I have never had dogs before so have no idea what to expect. I have treats, but she has no care for them, and will not let me put a leash on her. The one time I managed to get the leash on her, she just put her head on the ground and would not move. I did not want to pull her, so I unclipped it after a few minutes of waiting, and let her carry on. I have not tried to leash her since then. Any thoughts...

klmboxer · #2 20th March 2012, 07:36 PM

I know she is older, now, but she is still in a brand new environment, and I can tell you that she will probably be looking for fun. They always do. Soooo... with our two pups, if we are not making the stupidest, most annoying noises, looking like a clown, they still have a hard time with commands that stop their fun, or anything else that is more interesting to them, for that matter. Which doesn't take much. We try to give them reasons/motivational memory, if you will, such as higher powered treats such as pieces of boiled chicken(Brody and Maggie's fav, by the way). We keep working with ours with the chicken pieces, and my wife will sit on the ground, and I will walk and sit 20-30 feet away, and take turns calling them back and forth, treating every time. This should work every time once she knows the reward is waiting. This is just one thing you can do to create the 'want' to come to you. And, as quick as they learn that the treat is waiting, they can also learn when it is not.LOL I hope you are creative.LOL The high powered treat should help on the leash also by leading the treat in front of her nose to manipulate movements. But for her to enjoy, or 'want to' please you, she has to have something good or fun to relate to the command. We have had to involve a lot of good things to provoke the good behaviors at first, and eventually, hopefully we can eliminate the food reward from the formula to mostly praise and playtime. That's my experience, anyway, and we have only had ours for 7 weeks. BUT... that is times 2 for us, and the dedication, and repetitious training is starting to pay off. Slooooowwwwllllyyyy!LOL Hang in there, and think like a kid. I have had many breeds of dogs, in my time, and these are our first boxers. They are a unique breed, to say the least! It's almost as if they think they are human. We have also had good results with the "amazing dog training man" series of videos on youtube. He is a positive reinforcement trainer that we like a lot. Lots of good videos for everything from 'come', to the leash, to soft mouthing, etc. Good luck. Oh, and we only use the breast of chicken. Not legs or anything that is not pretty lean.

Gatorblu · #3 20th March 2012, 09:14 PM

She is in a new enviroment and may take a couple of weeks to adjust. However since she seems fine with everyone else, she may have had limited experience with adult human men or had a bad experience and that could explain her aprehension. I would use some treats for a short while to try to entice her to come to you. Once she comes give her a treat, then praise. Once she associates treat and love with you things will get better. Congrats on your new pup!

LILYLARUE · #4 21st March 2012, 06:10 AM

I agree with Gaterblu. She needs some time to build trust in you. It could be your size, the way you hold yourself or even your voice that could be her fear trigger. Since you don't know what type of life she had before you, she could have been an annoyance to the previous man of the house. You just can't be sure, so you need to build her trust that you are a good guy.

When she follows you around, drop treat behind you. That will reward her for being close to you. Don't try to pet her, or turn around and reach down at her for a while. You want to be the best thing since sliced bread without triggering her fears.

If you want to try to engage her, get on the floor. Even laying down would be good. You want to get as small as you can and on her level. Use a squeaky toy to try to engage her in play. Use treats to entice her to come close. Try not to stare directly at her, this will intimidate her.

Try not speaking to her at first. When you start to speak to her, use a soft, whispering voice. The higher pitched the better. Yes, you most likely will feel foolish, but it's all for the puppy to gain some confidence with you. Eventually you will be able to talk in a normal tone for her to respond positively.

Don't reach out for her or grab her. This will only reinforce her fear reaction. You may not even be able to pet her for a little while. Hands can be scarey for a puppy, coming at them, unexpectedly, grabbing at them. Don't hold her for a while and never hold the puppy like a baby, with them on their back. It's forcing them into a submissive position and not a good idea for your fearful little one.

When you are home, try to speak softly all the time. If you raise your voice, this could send her back into a fearful state and into her safe spot, her crate. Since she finds her crate a safe place, always leave the door open. And if she is in there, don't approach her. This will only add to her fear. She is in there to feel safe, so don't jeopardize that and ruin the benefits of crate training.

All these little things will help you to gain her trust. Don't expect a whole lot from her at first and don't rush her into liking you. She obviously does, or she wouldn't follow you. So you have the first step done, just have to work on the rest. Be gentle as possible with her. Don't force her to come to you. If allow her on the furniture, then have your wife sit on the couch with her and you furthest away. Don't look at her, talk to her or reach for her. Let her come to you. And when she does, stay still and ignore her. Let her inspect you and get comfortable. You can watch her reaction and see if taking another step with her is the right time.

This will take a little time, but once you gain her trust that you are the funnest thing around, she will be your best friend! But if you rush things, this may create apprehension into her adulthood.

When I got Buster, my first rescue, he was extremely fearful of men and very fear aggressive. It took months with him, but he was 2 yrs old when he came to me and was abused by a man and his young son. I took him to work with me every day, and had all the men toss treats into the office as they walked by. Then moved to them standing at the door to toss the treats. Then to kneeling down and tossing. Then Buster started to slowly approach to get the treats. Each day I could see the progress. Now he is completely trusting of men and will even lay on his back for a belly rub and cry when a man DOESN'T stop in the office to see him. LOL So even the most extreme fearfulness can be overcome. Since your little girl is still quite young, you have some time to work on it. And you gotta do it before she hits adolesence so the fear reaction doesn't become a permanent normal reaction for her.

Good luck and please keep up abreast on her progress!

LILYLARUE · #5 21st March 2012, 07:54 AM

Oh, and as for the leash.....next time clip it on her and walk away. Let her get used to it dragging behind her. She may never have been leashed before either. So it's something new she needs to get used to. After a few times of dragging the leash, then pick up the leash, treat her and take a few steps. Then put it down again. Do this for a few days. Then pick up the leash, take a few steps and see if she will follow. Use a squeaky toy if treats aren't her thing. If she takes a few steps with you then quietly but happily praise her! Build up the distance every day, by taking 4-5 steps more each time. Everyone in your house can be using this training and should be so she learns to walk nice with anyone at the end of the leash.

When I worked with leash fear, I would coat a long handled wooden spoon with peanut butter. I would let them smell it and then hold it inches from their nose. Take a few steps and if they followed, they would get a quick lick. Then a few more steps and another lick. Eventually I would have them follow nicely on the leash, getting the reward lick every 15 or 20 steps. Building up each time the length of the reward. This is also a great trick to teach them to heal nicely. If they pulled ahead, the spoon went away and we changed direction, again gaining their interest in the reward and taking more steps.

jagresti · #6 21st March 2012, 11:22 AM

Thanks guys for the responses. Sophie is a little better now than a few days ago. I took her on her first ride in the truck last night to pick up the kids and she was a little skiddish at first (understandable since this was probably her 2nd or 3rd ride ever) but she was alot better and even seemed to relax by the end of it. I can tell this dog will be awesome!

I tried to train her today to sit with some left over turkey from my lunch. She loved it! I am wondering if you all think that is the best way to treat her, or will it ruin her appetite for her own food? She is eating Regal Puppy Bites. Up until now, I was only treating her with milkbones and she sometimes liked them, sometimes didn't pay them any mind.

Still haven't tried to leash her again, might do that tonight again.

Thanks again...you guys are a great wealth of information.

larrygs · #7 21st March 2012, 12:31 PM

You have already gotten great advice on building a relationship with you new pup.

On a different subject, this caught my eye: "She will chase the kids all over the yard, jump on them, etc. without a care in the world. They will pet her, hug her, roll around with her ...."

When Layla was a pup we allowed kids to play with her the same way, what great fun!

However, a year later and much larger it wasn't as much fun when she jumped up and wanted to play maul kids and adults. Took awhile to untrain. You might want to consider what kind of play the kids are allowed to encourage based on how it will be when she is an adult. My brother also like to play fight and box with Layla when she was younger. They both loved it. LOL, that stopped when she got older, stronger and too fast for him, and nearly gave him a black eye.

Sansal · #8 21st March 2012, 01:27 PM

You definitely want to use high value treats like turkey for training. Milkbone usually doesn't cut it

my dogs get all kinds of treats and still eat their kibble without a problem. Of course you can also use part of her regular kibble meals for training, for example in the morning when she's hungry, you could use it for hand feeding to increase the bond you have with her.

Also, regal puppy bites is pretty low quality ( lots of grains, corn, which can be difficult to digest, and fillers). Check out Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble and maybe choose a higher quality food for her. Many board members like TOTW (grain free, affordable) but there are many other good options out there.

Good luck with your puppy

boxrmommy · #9 22nd March 2012, 05:44 AM

Great advice from everyone! I continue to learn tricks on boxerworld. Good luck and send updates.

Cami · #10 22nd March 2012, 06:28 AM

Another sure fire way to get *most* dogs to love you is messy but I have yet to have it fail me. I work with animals for a living and have the opportunity to meet new dogs all the time. Getting some of them to "love" me so that I can care for them can be a little challenging.
This works for ME...(hopefully she is food motivated).....
Peanut butter....lots of peanut butter...covering your hands!!
I usually apply it to the backs of my hands so that while they are licking it off one hand I can gently pet them with my other. My touch is soft and gentle. They associate ME with something yummy. I sit on the floor and the smell entices them to come to me (I praise them as they are approaching me) and increase my enthusiasm once they start licking.
It is gross, slimy and messy like I said but it builds up their confidence with me. I have a small amount of time when meeting new dogs (to get them comfortable with me) and typically know beforehand based on owners descriptions of reactions to "strangers" that this might be the approach I need to utilize.
Some of my "best friends" are those that I let cover me in slobber during our first encounter while they cleaned the PB off my hands.
Others have given you great advice but this was just something I thought you might try to as well. Anything that gets her close to you is a good thing!

jagresti · #11 22nd March 2012, 08:50 AM

Reading these responses is great! Sophie continues to gain a little trust in me each day. Stress the word LITTLE. Still no luck on the leash, I clipped it on her last night and let her walk with it for awhile but as soon as i picked it up, her head went to the ground and she dug in her heels. I will try again this weekend..

BTW - Sansal, you mentioned that Regal is low quality food - that really confuses me since the #1 ingredient is meat, and I was always told by vets that was the key to choosing a good food...there are many out there that have grain or something else as the first ingredient. Also, Regal is hollistic, which I was also told by vets is #1. Anyway, I guess I have alot to learn still.

Also, Larrygs, thanks for the advice about the playing with the kids, I will keep an eye on that. It seems harmless for now, no biting or anything, but I will definitely watch it.

Thanks to you all again...

Cami · #12 22nd March 2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Regal is low quality food - that really confuses me since the #1 ingredient is meat,

The first ingredient is "turkey MEAL"....followed by a lot of not so desirable ingredients (grains for instance). If a food has "corn" in any of its various forms as an ingredient you want to choose another product. Corn is the 3rd ingredient in this food following rice. It is listed as a 3 star food....you want at minimum a 4 star and preferably a 5 or 6 star. Higher quality foods can be more expensive however you feed LESS so the purchase may be more but the amount you have to buy is less. If that makes sense?
Not all "healthier" foods work for every dog so you really have to do a trial and error (so to speak) run through until you hit on something that works for your dog. I am not implying that you will be buying all sorts of various foods but in some cases one food might create loose stools (for example) and something else might not.