Aaargh!!! ACE VENT!! Help--what do you ask your vet to use as an alternative??

Layla's Mom · #1 05-02-2005, 06:49 PM

Please help! I have just spoken to the fourth vet in the last four days who claims that they use acepromazine on boxers all the time without any problems. They said that there was really no suitable alternative. Now these are not small town vets I'm talking about--some are directors of prestigious vet hospitals in the NY/NJ tri-state metro area! Here's why I ask my question:

My Layla needed laser surgery on a tumor on her ear flap and my vet wanted to use ACE on her AFTER the surgery to keep her calm and away from her bandages. I told him, "NO" and he respected my wishes but did disagree with me. She really does need some sort of sedation as the lampshade is not an alternative.

Am I wrong?? Or mistaken? Is it bad to use ACE as a PRE-surgery sedative but okay as a POST-surgical sedative? Also, what has your vet used as an alternative for sedation??

Please help, as even my DH who usually always supports my decisions due to all the research I do for Layla, is starting to question me based on all of the feedback we are getting from these vets.

Thanks is advance

PS--I print out ACE research to back up my claim, but it doesn't seem to help either

**gmacleod** · #2 05-02-2005, 07:01 PM

Acepromazine is never OK - doesn't make any difference whether it is given pre-surgery, post-surgery or just as a general sedative. It is not worth risking the death of your dog to be the "first time" a particular vet has seen that reaction to the drug.

As for an alternative, if a sedative is really required, try valium.

Tango's Mama · #3 05-02-2005, 07:17 PM

I live in a pretty small town but my vets office has a website and here is an exerpt from their site..

"Proper Anesthesia is critical. This is not the place to "CUT CORNERS." We have gone beyond the norm because we will NOT sacrifice safety. Every patient is examined by a doctor and receives pre-anesthesia which reduces salivation, allows relaxation and maintains a correct heart rate. Patients are entubated, placed on gas anesthesia and constantly monitored by the anesthesia technician.We use Isoflurane and Sevoflurane anesthesia and utilize EKG, respiration, pulse oximeter and core body temperature monitors and every patient is on a circulating warm water pad to prevent hypothermia. This is a hands on job. Your pet is never left alone. Patients are also monitored with EKG's, pulse oximeter, respiration monitor and core body temperature. With critical patients, we also utilize a capnometer. A soft moisture-wicking bed with a circulating warm water warmer is beneath your pet. To further reduce stress, when your pet is waking up, a nurse holds or lies down with you pet gently petting and speaking to him or her until aware and calm. An I.V. catheter and fluids and pre-anesthetic blood tests are frequently options."

No mention of ace at all so I asked them about it just in case. My vet said We do not use that its not safe for all dogs. Espicially boxers! That from a small town vets office

Doja's Mommy · #4 05-02-2005, 09:53 PM

Due to Doja's 'liver condition' she has had to have several tests, one that required anesthesia and she also had anesthesia for her spay and liver biopsy, both times they used Isoflurene. I have also heard of vets using Propofol in combination with the Isoflurene. But have not used the Propofol personally. As for the Isoflurene, Doja seemed to come out of it quite well both times. I would never use ACE on her. I wouldn't even consider a vet that would use it. I know after much research, many many bad things can happen, and as stated before, Its Just Not Worth It!

If you need to you can locate articles written about the use of Ace and Boxers. You should print it out and give it to your vet. Doja and I were fortunate that her vet already knew that Ace was a No No. Good luck

Deb H · #5 05-03-2005, 06:20 AM

When Boomer went in for his neuter I took a printout to the vets office and asked them not to use ACE and here is why. She respected my wishes even though she thought that ACE wasn't a problem. I am not sure what they used (it is on the bill at home) but she said that it was a little more expensive (I didn't care about that) and he was up and ready to go home in a couple of hours. The vet tech was suprised he was up and around so quickly but the vet told her it was because they used something besides ACE. I got the impression she thought I was over reacting, but it is on Boomer's chart in big bold letters NO ACE I don't really care if she agrees with me as long as she never uses it on him.
There are other choices. Good luck!

JacobsMom · #6 05-03-2005, 07:13 AM

Last summer Jacob had to go under to have epulis removed from inside his mouth and, of course, I was educated on the harm that may be caused with ACE. When I phoned my vet to express my concern, I spoke to the vet tech and she tried her darndest to tell me that ACE was OK & she has used it on Boxers before. My reply was "not my boxer!!!" & she said YES! She had used it on him when he had gone in to be neutered (I didn't know anything about ACE then). I was extremely frustrated after getting off the phone with her, so I talked to DH about it. He said "the vet's know what they're doing", I was furious! The next day I called the vet back & was planning to ask for the vet himself, but a different tech answered the phone so I figured that I would try my luck with her. She was so much more understanding. She didn't give me any hassel & said that she wrote it on Jacob's file. I thanked her profusely. The day that I brought him in, I made sure to ask if there were any special requests indicated & the vet said "no ACE".

It's worth the fight to keep your baby safe!!

SuzanneC · #7 05-03-2005, 08:31 AM

For normal cases, I premed with morphine, xylazine, and atropine or glycopyrrolate, use thiopental for induction, and maintain on isoflurane. There are a huge number of variations on this protocol, but there is no need to use ace.

Maxxsmom · #8 05-03-2005, 10:49 AM

My vet agreed not to use ACE for Maxx's ear crop, so they used Isoflurane instead. The tech. who was obviously uneducated argued that ACE would not affect one breed over another, and that it would have the same effect on all breeds, and as I argued I thought... it's the vet I need to talk to not some tech who has no clue. So when I spoke with the vet she made the note not to use ACE, and my point was made, but it did seem to cause some debate... My dog won't get ACE and that's just it!!

SuzanneC · #9 05-03-2005, 11:41 AM

For clarification, isoflurane is NOT a substitute for ace, they have completely different uses. Isoflurane is an inhalant anesthetic used to maintain a plane of surgical anesthesia (unconsciousness). Ace is a sedative commonly used as a preanesthetic medication, but it does not induce a state of surgical anesthesia.

tesster · #10 05-03-2005, 12:53 PM

Don't argue with the vet about it. If he or she is not willing to comply with your wishes, whether or not they agree with them, find another vet. It's YOUR dog and your decision.

My advise is to make SURE that it is noted in your dog's medical chart. I would even go so far as to ask them to note it in the same way they would note an allergy to medication so that there is no way to overlook it.

Good luck with the surgery!
Julie