Bloat risk factors

[jennw]

yikes! thanks- i don't want a fatty We're new at this.

[daziegirl4]

OK - so I've been reading alot about bloat lately - in particular the Purdue Study and contributing factors such as raised feeders. I was on a Great Dane discussion forum (not sure if I can mention which) and I have found the following link in response to the studies. Just wondering what the professionals here thought....thanks in advance

http://www.greatdanelady.com/article...loat_study.htm

PS - I see that the article was written by a "Canine Nutritional Consultant" not sure how relevant

Also, in reading other discussions on that board, many of the posts stated that the Purdue Study has been picked apart and shot down many times by experienced breeders....that the raised food bowls are considered by most as correlative, not causitive. But that STRESS was the most significant trigger of bloat....

I'm not challenging the Purdue Study by any means...just curious to see what everyone here thinks of the opposing discussion? Are there any other studies out there that support the Purdue findings?? It seems that every book I read (on great danes that is) advises to raise the feeders: Are there that many large/giant breed experts out there that either really don't know about the Purdue Study or just don't buy the findings? Just seems that there is an awful lot of people with giant breed dogs using raised feeders (unless feeding raw) ?? If the Purdue Studies are in fact a legitimate source, why the disregard of their findings?? Confusing to the average dog owner who wants to do what's best for their dog....do you take the advice of a statistical study OR the advice of an experienced breeder who has real-life experience with these breeds???

[gmacleod]

Originally Posted by daziegirl4

Are there any other studies out there that support the Purdue findings??

Um. Yes, several other studies have been done. This thread is actually about research that supports and builds upon the findings of the Purdue study. Not the original study itself. Didn't you read the first post?

Yes, there are a lot of people out there with giant breeds who use raised feeders. And these are the dogs who're statistically the most at risk of bloat. The dogs that most commonly suffer from it are the ones that most commonly fed from raised feeders. LOL - you know, one possibility here is that there's a relationship between those two things Or at least, that's what these studies have found to be the case.

[daziegirl4]

Originally Posted by gmacleod

Um. Yes, several other studies have been done. This thread is actually about research that supports and builds upon the findings of the Purdue study. Not the original study itself. Didn't you read the first post?

I must have misread - it looked to me like the same people that reported on the research that "supports and builds upon the findings of the Purdue study", were in fact the same people cited on the article I read from the Purdue study (I must be wrong). From the first post: Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; Malathi Raghavan, DVM; Tana Lee, BA. I'm just seeing the same names over and over again - unless I'm missing something - but I see the same names on this link: (http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/bbi.htm)

That wasn't my only point though....I was wondering what the thoughts of the opposing article written by the Canine Nutritional Consultant were? Like I said before, I wasn't challenging the studies - just seeing some difference in opinions. Thanks.

[gmacleod]

Yes, same people (well, some of the same people) but a completely different study - different dogs, different timeframe, different methodology, etc. And some diffferent (additional) findings too.

[JulieM]

PS - I see that the article was written by a "Canine Nutritional Consultant" not sure how relevant

Not relevant at all, as this is a self-stylized title and I see nothing anywhere to indicate that the author has any sort of certification or degree in canine nutrition. (I am not knocking self-taught individuals - I am largely one myself - and the author has 30 years breeding experience and a longtime interest in the subject. However, the lead researcher on the Purdue studies has an MA, a VMD, an MPH, a PhD and a Fellowship, and 40 years experience in conducting scientific studies, so his conclusions should probably be given some weight as well. )

in reading other discussions on that board, many of the posts stated that the Purdue Study has been picked apart and shot down many times by experienced breeders....that the raised food bowls are considered by most as correlative, not causitive.

That is exactly what the Purdue Study says. Raised food bowls correlate with a 110% increased risk of bloat. Nowhere will anyone who actually reads the literature find Purdue saying that raised food bowls cause bloat.

Are there that many large/giant breed experts out there that either really don't know about the Purdue Study or just don't buy the findings?

I think they either haven't actually read the Study, or they don't understand what they've read.

do you take the advice of a statistical study OR the advice of an experienced breeder who has real-life experience with these breeds???

The people participating in the Purdue Study had real-life experience with these breeds.....The Purdue Study was not a statistical study, it was a propsective study (most are retrospective) - they chose the dogs before any bloating had occurred, took baseline information on a variety of factors, updated the information at least annually, and after following the dogs for many years found strong correlations between certain factors and bloat. This allowed them to devise a list of risk factors (again, not causes) so that people can make informed decisions on how to best avoid bloat in a bloat-prone breed.

I have found the following link in response to the studies. Just wondering what the professionals here thought.

This was posted elsewhere in response to the above-mentioned op-ed piece, but works well here, too:

OT on the bloat thing - I hadn't read the Great Dane Lady's opinion before, but I have to say that she has completely misinterpreted the Purdue information.

The first sentence tells you that she hasn't read the Purdue information closely - she speaks of "the claims that chest size, elevated dishes, citric acid, high fat diets etc., make the large/giant breeds (Great Danes) more prone to bloat." Well, that's *not* what the Purdue study says - what the Purdue study says is that these things *increase the risk* in dogs that are already prone to bloat.

She writes, "With that information in mind, it is logical that the majority, if not ALL of the dogs that came in to Dr. Glickman's survey, have been fed with an elevated dish. This is simply how he came to his "opinion" that elevated dishes cause bloat."

Again, this is completely inaccurate. Dr. Glickman looked at Great Danes who were fed from an elevated dish, and Great Danes who were fed from the floor. (And other breeds, as well, of course.) More of the dogs fed from an elevated dish bloated than the dogs fed from the floor, representing an 110% increased risk factor.

She writes, "In the early stages of this research, their hypothesis was -- the measurements of height, width and depth of the dog's chest - chest ration - was the determining factor for those prone to bloating. And if your dog fell within a certain range, it was at risk and would more than likely bloat."

That may have been true in the early stages - in the final stages, what was found was that dogs with a chest that was narrow and deep *compared to the average for the breed* bloated more often.

She writes, "The Bloat study says -- one should not use a food with fat in the first four ingredients, or a food should not contains citric acid (a natural preservative) and the food should have rendered meat meal containing bone in the first four ingredients. Dr. Glickman's study suggests that these things cause bloat in canines."

Again, this is untrue. The study states that dogs fed foods with fat in the first four ingredients bloated more often than dogs fed foods without it; that dogs whose owners pre-moistened foods preserved with citric acid bloated more often than dogs whose owners didn't, or whose pre-moistened food didn't contain citric acid; and that dogs fed food with meat and bone meal in the first four ingredients bloated less than dogs fed food without it. Dr. Glickman's writings only speak of risk factors, and not of cause - he has stated quite clearly and several times that they don't know what causes bloat.

She writes, "If you ask any well seasoned, knowledgeable breeder who lives with these animals, they will tell you stress is the trigger for bloat. Not the cause, but the trigger."

This is exactly what the Purdue research found, as well.

As a side note, I do find it a bit ironic that she criticizes Purdue for presenting their findings from several long-term studies on bloat, yet promotes a diet regimen for bloat-prone dogs based on nothing but her own personal opinions of what causes it....

[daziegirl4]

Thank you JulieM!!! That really helped me to understand the difference in opinion from the Great Dane Lady. I appreciate your response more than you know.

I am not an expert by any means....just a regular person who wants to do what's best - but sometimes it's so hard to distinguish what is "the best" when there's so much information out there....

[Checkers]

Does anyone know where I can find the part of the actual Purdue study that mentions the finding about the exercise before/after feeding? Ive found references to it, but not the actual part or the study that states it

[JulieM]

I'd imagine it's touched on in the "Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs" study published in the November 15, 2000 issue of the JAVMA; however the abstract doesn't mention it and the full text of the article isn't available online to non-subscribers. Some libraries have back-issues of the JAVMA.

Purdue's Bloat Notes from April 1996 mention it, though (emphasis theirs):

Non-dietary factors not associated with higher risk included exercise patterns...

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/apr96.htm

[Checkers]

Thanks Julie