Help! Anxiously Awaiting Tyson'sThyroid Panel Results

[packblt]

I am so upset! After a wonderful winter with no squabbling between Tyson and Bandit, Tyson had an "episode" on Wednesday. I immediately took him to the vet on Thursday and was ready to do battle to get him tested, thankfully the vet agreed to do the workup even though he wasn't convinced that this is not the reason for Tyson's sudden aggressive outburst.

This is the third Spring that this has happened. Vet and behaviorist believed I am missing the "trigger" but I am not convinced. They are fine all winter, loving each other, playing, licking and sleeping on one another and then wham! Tyson will grab Bandit by the scruff and pin him down and won't release until we can drive a baby gate between them. Bandit gets pissed off and barks, growls and lunges as they are being separated but I don't believe he would actually bite Tyson. And Tyson doesn't do damage to Bandit, just growls and tries to pin him down. Bandit has given Tyson a few nips on the legs trying to get free but that's it. After the incident we keep them separated for a day to a week depending on if there are scratches, which Bandit usually has and Tyson is an obsessive licker. Interestingly when this goes on, Lola, our girl, barks and nips at Bandit, almost as if to say "don't hurt him, he's not quite right". I know that sounds odd but unless you have seen this. Aslo, both dogs are obviously upset by the incident and the separation that follows. They stay on their side of the baby gates and cry for each other - I just don't know.

Could this be some weird allergy to Spring? We are on pins and needles the whole Spring and Summer. I also have to mention that Tyson is the most lovable mushpot you will ever meet. He is that clingy dog that always leans and licks. He is like that with all people and Bandit and Lola. Sometimes I think they are happy when he is sleeping and not loving them so much!

So I bring him to the vet and just about demand the test for Thyroid because besides the bizarre agression, his coat thinned on his belly, and there are a few other possible symptoms. Well vet agrees to do the full thryroid panel but does tell me he thinks I am missing the trigger and that it's most likely not the thyroid but takes him in the back to draw his blood. I also mention that over the past year Tyson has calmed down and we joke that he is a big lazy dog now, moves from sleeping spot to sleeping spot. Well he comes back and mentions that Ty has gone from 70 pounds last fall to 81 pounds! I'm really hoping that this IS yet another few symptoms of a problem with his thyroid. But why would this only happen in the spring and summer? I know this sounds crazy but I just know there is something wrong and that it's not that he wants to do this to Bandit. After we got him off Bandit this last time he stood frozen for a while, like totally zoned out.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I am so sad for him and for Bandit as they are now missing each other terribly. Yesterday was Tyson's fourth birthday and we were just so sad.

[Gatorblu]

Wow how nerve racking for you. I definitely think you are right to get the full thyroid panel done. But here is another thought about the agression, could there be a female in your neighborhood that has gone into heat? That may be the trigger you are missing.

[packblt]

Wow, never even gave that a thought as I am always looking for a "trigger" between them. As far as I know there are no females that are not spayed in our 57 home development. However, that could have changed and I don't know about it as there are some families that are new, but in my immediate area, say one block each way, definitely all spayed.

Thanks so much for the input. I have to get a handle on this fast. Now that they are separated they won't eat breakfast, and only some dinner. And Tyson seems to be vomitting up some of the food that he does eat because he's so hungry he seems to eat too fast. Lola, of course, is eating just fine and it appears she's a bit annoyed by all the whining.

Thanks again.

[packblt]

So I called the vet today for the results of Tyson's thyroid panel. I read a book yesterday regarding canine thyroid problems and realized that Tyson had even more symptoms than I had originally thought. I was fully convinced that that his thyroid is out of whack. Oddly, I was somewhat releived thinking that it could be treated and all would be well again.

So I call and my regular vet won't be in until Wed but another vet told me that Tyson is in the normal range for thyroid levels but his CBC is low and his amalyse?? is high which means he has a touch of pancreatitis. I question the normal thyroid levels because based on the book, he has soooo many symptoms. Vet says, no, in normal range. Seemed a little abrupt when I was telling him all the symptoms, but then again I have seen this vet only 1 time in 4 years with 3 dogs, so I guess maybe he doesn't have the patience for me and all my questions. So my daughter is now picking up a copy of the results so I can go over it with my behaviorist and I guess regular vet on Wed.

I really feel that I should pursue the thryoid issue and now I'm really scared about the low CBC and pancreatitis. Any thoughts on where to go from here would be really appreciated.

Thanks

[Gatorblu]

Well, the vet said he was on normal range but didn't say where in "normal" did he? Tyson maybe low normal and that can lead to symptoms. Instead of getting a full dose of thyroids meds you might try 1/2 dose. You can talk to your regular vet about it and get his opinion.

[Cami]

Post your results when you have them in hand. There is a formula you can use to help decipher the results. This formula will give you a 50% range for any lab and anything below that 50% number could warrant treatment.

I would want to know specifically what part of his CBC was considered low. As far as the amylase being high....minus any other symptoms then I wouldn't worry too much. I know it is easier said than done but the increase in that number alone doesn't automatically suggest a pancreatic issue.

[packblt]

I am really freaked out now and also annoyed. I knew to to ask for a full thryroid panel. So my daughter gets the copy and for $250 the test results only show the Total T4, TSH and Free T4, and also "normal" bloodwork usually done.

So now I'm really worried because it show his platelet count is low - 142 (range 170-400)
Amylase High 2967 - (range 290-1125)
Lipase High 1479 (range 77-695)
CPK High 916 (range 59-895)

And I'll put in the "thyroid panel"

Total T4 1.8 (range 0.8-3.5)
TSH 0.46 (range 0.00-0.60)
Free T4 (Dialysis) 29 (range8-40)

How can he possibly feel good? I am going crazy waiting for Wed and our regular vet, who I hope won't be annoyed by all the questions.

Thanks

[Cami]

To calculate the 50% point you add the end values of the range and divide by 2.

Total T4 1.8 (range 0.8-3.5)
TSH 0.46 (range 0.00-0.60)
Free T4 (Dialysis) 29 (range8-40)

T4
0.8 + 3.5 = 4.3
4.3 divided by 2 = 2.15

Your results are below the 50% range at 1.8

TSH
0.00 + 0.60 = 0.60
0.60 divided by 2 = 0.30

Within normal range when tested.

Free T4
8 + 40 = 48
48 divided by 2 = 24

Above the 50% mark at 29 but not by much!

These results are very similar to my girls. I wasn't able to get meds started until I had the vet take more blood and send it out for additional testing (full panel including TgAA) and I had it sent to Hemopet (Dr. Jean Dodd's) in California.

She personally goes over every test and sends YOU a copy of her findings via e-mail. She also bases her testing on breed and age. You will get a more in-depth "reading" with her personal notes and suggestions. She diagnosed Cami with thyroiditis and medication was started (very low dose) and within 24 hours she was a different dog in that she was less panicky. Within a week I could see her hair start to come back as well.

Trust your gut. Keep pursuing this if you think it will achieve results. If what your pup is going through is related to a thyroid issue it will only get worse (behaviors plus additional symptoms) and all the while the thyroid is going to continue to produce less and less of the hormones to maintain health. Eventually the test will be below normal ranges and the vet will tell you to start giving meds but why take the chance?

I am not a vet nor am I suggesting your dog needs medication but I think further testing should be considered to either confirm or rule out a thyroid issue. Far easier to do this (less expensive too) and get answers than trying to figure something else out. It might not be a thyroid issue at all but I don't think you have enough info just yet.

Here is the link to read about the 50% range.
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/How...estResults.pdf


(CPK)
Creatine Phosphokinase, this is an enzyme found in muscle cells.
High CK levels can occur in situations where muscles of the body are damaged, diseased, or inflamed. This can even occur with heart muscle problems.

[packblt]

Cami- thank you so much! You and Gatorblu are boxer angels!! The book I read where I saw even more symptoms than I originally thought was by Dr. Dobbs. I felt relieved that I kept seeing her and now you saying "go with your gut". I know I probably seem like the crazy person that got three puppies and no "clue" but I know my Tyson. At first I thought he was just calming while getting older, but there is this nagging feeling that something just isn't right and according to the book, there definitely may be.

Any idea what could be going on with the other high values and low platelets? Ihave zero medical knowlege but I am trying to decipher and it looks like there may be other symptoms burried in this bloodwork.

I downloaded the forms to send his bloodwork to Dr. Dobbs, but I have to wait to speak to his regular vet and the funny thing is I am not confident that he won't think I'm crazy and I'm really not prepared for a battle.

Thanks again!!

[Cami]

I am not confident that he won't think I'm crazy and I'm really not prepared for a battle

Make a conscience decision to just get done what you want done. You don't have to be gearing up for a battle!!
Trust me.....I have spent years honing the "this is MY pet and you will do what I want" skills needed to be the best pet owner I can be.

Your goal is to find answers that will help your pet. You can go about this one of two ways.
Call and ask to leave a message to a trusted vet. When they call you back tell them that you know in your heart of hearts that something is going on and you want to do everything in your power to figure out what it is.
Don't ask IF you can do something. Just tell them what you want, what you are prepared to do (send to Hemopet), etc...
You want to have a full panel done, you will bring in the necessary paperwork which gives step by step instructions on how the blood is to be stored/shipped, etc...
Be prepared to pay for an office visit, blood draw, needle disposal and shipping.
**I can't remember now but I think I actually paid Hemopet myself (could be wrong as it has been quite a few years ago). If this is still an option then go ahead and make arrangements for payment and that will give you a sure-fire IN to have the testing done since you already paid for it!
If the vet questions you that is okay!
Stand your ground in a non-confrontational way.
Tell them you just want the test and if there isn't a problem with the results at least you will have crossed a potential issue off your list and you will have a great resource for a baseline if it is needed in the future.

Second option would be to just call and make an appointment and say that you want to have blood drawn for a thyroid test. Appointment scheduled and when you show up you can have a face to face with the tech and or vet with what you want done.

The lifelong commitment to having a pet can be uncomfortable at times when it comes to medical issues. Society in general tends to loose a bit of self confidence when dealing with medical professionals. I was this way at one time and can still be when it comes to my own health. I don't know what it is about my pets, hubby or dad but when it comes to them I am hell on wheels and even though I try to do it in the nicest way possible I am sure I have offended the professionals at times with my constant questioning and 2nd guessing their advice.

In the end it all comes down to one simple fact.
You are your pets #1 advocate. A trusted vet or team of vets can be a wonderful and sometimes necessary addition but at the end of the day no one knows your pets like you do and they don't care about them as much as you do either. Not saying that in a bad way just that no one can possibly care as much as you do.

[packblt]

So I am definitely intimidated by having to tell the regular vet that I absolutely want the full thyroid panel done by Hemopet. I think it's for a few reasons and nagging little voices.

First, I am a raw nerve about the fact that I have been saying for two years that maybe we should check his thyroid. And I am extremely emotional and feel guilty.

Second, last Winter I brought Bandit in to see him because Bandit was losing fur on both his sides. I mentioned that I did look it up and it appeared to maybe be seasonal flank alopecia. Well he said absolutely not and that it's over diagnosed and extremely rare and not common in boxers. Blood was drawn to rule out some things. Well I was shocked because that's not what I had read. Called for results of blood work and it showed nothing. A week goes by and I need to bring Bandit in because he vommitted up a sock and I wanted to check to see if there was another one in there. Well he wasn't there so I saw a different vet who looked at Bandit and said "wow, classical flank alopecia, very common in boxers". Needless to say when Bandit started to thin out and lose the fur on his sides this winter I wasn't surprised. Oh and he told me to stop reading everything on the Internet!

I don't know if I am more afraid that he won't be familiar with Dr. Dodds, accept the fact that Ty has so many of the other symptoms or that he will want to determine the dosing to try without the full panel from Hemopet.

Any thoughts?

[Gatorblu]

I don't think you should feel intimidated by your vet. I also don't think your vet should dismiss you. Any vet who would not run a simple test that I asked for for two years would no longer been my vet. I would be looking for a new vet. Or at the least I would ask to see the one that filled in and recognized the seasonal flank alopecia. You have to think about what is the best for the health of your pet. I have no doubt you have the strength inside you to get what you want and need for your pup!