Help! Anxiously Awaiting Tyson'sThyroid Panel Results

[packblt]

Great! Thanks... Really thinking about changing vet but quite scared to do it now while this is going on but really maybe what I need to do! I will call in the morning to hear advice from current vet, but will also make an appointment for second opinion consult visit with potential new vet.

Thanks so much.

[LILYLARUE]

Originally Posted by Gatorblu

I don't think you should feel intimidated by your vet. I also don't think your vet should dismiss you. Any vet who would not run a simple test that I asked for for two years would no longer been my vet. I would be looking for a new vet. Or at the least I would ask to see the one that filled in and recognized the seasonal flank alopecia. You have to think about what is the best for the health of your pet. I have no doubt you have the strength inside you to get what you want and need for your pup!

This is exactly what I had to do. For a year I requested thyroid testing done on Lily, and the vet actually refused saying she is too young for such an issue. Well, I finally had it and went to another vet. The moment we walked into the exam room the vet said "Did you ever have her thyroid checked?" I asked why and he said "Well, she has a grey muzzle, dark saddling, hair thinning and often results in ligament issues". Lily had both knees blown out and all the symptoms he stated and were the exact reasons I wanted the tests done a year ago! So yes, some vets just refuse to think outside of the normal. Boxers, are NEVER NORMAL!!!

[packblt]

So I made a call this morning to a vet that I have heard wonderful things about. My heart kind of sank when the girl on the phone said that they are really limited to surgery and teeth cleanings but if I tell her what's going on she can give me a few referrals. So I tell her about Tyson and not being able to get the thyroid testing and then I have the results but haven't spoken to my vet but really not feeling good about it and looking for a new vet. She tells me that she (the vet tech) went to a seminar about the thryroid probem and knew of Dr. Dodds and saw it treated with success alot in the past. Well I was crazy shocked! So then she tells me she has two names for me, both are excellent and she knows them personally. One is about 25 minutes away, but definitely worth the trip. The other is in the process of opening a new animal hospital in the next town! She's not sure that it's open, but google it for the number and try to get in with him, he works with 2 local shelters and is very well known and is leaving giant practice to open a small town, local hospital.

So I google his name and I get a listing from the chamber of commerce in that city. I call and it's ringing and no answer and no machine. Then a voice answers and I start rambling about Tyson and his bloodwork and I really need an appointment. The lady says "oh, of course but you are calling the Dr.'s home, I am his wife. I start appologizing and she says "don't worry, he will see you". "The new office isn't open yet but here is his cell phone number. He will be happy to set something up with you." Really? I am almost speechless but thank her, apologize again and take the number.

I call Dr.'s cel and leave a message and figure ok hope he calls back. Not one minute later my phone rings and it's his wife calling me back! She realizes that he probably won't pick up his messages til later since he is working at one of the shelters right now and wants to take my info so she can get to him and have him call me back immediately! Unbelievable! Two minutes later he calls and asks what's going on and when could he see Tyson and get things going! He will meet us at 9:30 tomorrow morning at his new hospital and apologizes that it's not quite ready but only missing finishing touches. I hung up the phone and almost fainted! OMG how lucky can I get!

On another note, I have been calling the current vet's office since 9:00 this morning and have never gotten through, busy, busy, busy. I tried no less than 20 times. Maybe this is a sign and I should stop calling!

[Gatorblu]

Wow! I hope his is as good as he seems to be at this point! So far he sounds like a keeper! Good luck tomorrow!

[LILYLARUE]

Signs are around us all the time - this time pay attention to them!!! Sounds like this is something that happened for a reason! Good luck!

[packblt]

So we went to meet the new vet today. I was really upbeat and he was very nice but my heart did sink when he looked at Tyson's bloodwork and said he didn't see any reason to do a full thyroid panel. I asked if he had heard of Dr. Dodds and he said no. I brought out a few pages of her book that I had highlighted and explained that Tyson had a good deal of these symptoms and based on this I really wanted the full panel done. He explained he would do as I wanted but it was cost prohibitive and he was trying to save my money. I told him about Hemopet and that at this point I needed to invest the $135 and he went to look it up. He came back and said he couldn't believe that you can have the full panel done for that amount and if I felt that strongly about it he would draw, prepare and pack the blood and I could take it to Fedex. Awesome-finally. He was really nice and thorough, we will be switching. A little sad that he said you had to expect a few bumps in the road of a multiple dog household, especially given Tyson's age when started. That kind of bugged me, but I guess I am always going to hear the "textbook" version of what's going on because really that's all they have to go on and I am not a "dog expert".

I am also a little upset because now that I have Tyson under a microscope, I think I may be detecting some abnormal things happening. It seems that every so often he may be feeling something that's not quite right. He stops, stands perfectly still and stays kind of frozen and staring off at nothing. We go over and give him a pat and call his name and in just a few seconds he's ok but it's definitely not right. Also, I think Lola can sense something with him. We still have the boys separated and they are still crying for each other but Lola switches between each of them to keep each somewhat happy. I noticed a few times when she is with Tyson she will just stop and back away a bit, looking at him kind of puzzeled. It's funny, she has always treated Tyson differently than Bandit. Like she knows he is more delicate.

If Bandit attempts to take Lola's toy or Nylabone, she lets out this extremely scary low grumble, while wagging her nub and attempting to box him. If he stops trying to get it, she goes over and shoves it in his face until he tries again. If Tyson comes to her when she has something, she will let him have it, no grumble at all. Tyson is really kind of shy and would never march right up to Bandit or Lola and just try to take something. Bandit and Lola don't have a shy bone in their bodies. Here they come world, get ready. Tyson just wants to sit between your lets and legs and lean on you. If Tyson has something and Bandit even looks in his direction from across the room he drops it because Bandit used to be a hoarder of all toys and Nylabones. Thankfully, after correcting him about a zillion times, he got the message that he doesn't get to have eveything!

So now, just waiting and worrying.

[packblt]

So at 5:40 today we received preliminary results for Tyson's thryroid panel from Hemopet and I feel sick. I was so hoping it would just show clear cut thryroid issue and we could get him help and move on to happier times! The results are:

T4 1.38 (1.40 - 3.40) Case specific range - Low
Free T4 1.11 (.80 - 2.20) normal
T3 51.3 (30 -70) normal
Free T3 2.60 (1.8 - 3.5) normal

all remaining bloodwork is still pending

I was happy to see that the T4 was considered low and thought we were getting somewhere until I saw the end of the report:

"Dear Collegue, Thyroid levels are normal overall here although T4 could be higher. The low T4 likely reflects a non-thyroidal issue. The remainder of the bloodwork is pending."

Signed by a DVM and then tamped with Jean DoddsDVM stamp

I could just cry, I guess this means we are not getting any help and I am so frustrated!

[Sansal]

Originally Posted by packblt

I am also a little upset because now that I have Tyson under a microscope, I think I may be detecting some abnormal things happening. It seems that every so often he may be feeling something that's not quite right. He stops, stands perfectly still and stays kind of frozen and staring off at nothing. We go over and give him a pat and call his name and in just a few seconds he's ok but it's definitely not right.

Hmm, almost sounds like an absence seizure (petit mal) or focal seizure?
Canine Epilepsy Network

I would start writing down when/how often this happens and bring it up to the vet as well. Maybe there is a neurological issue.

[Cami]

Hmm, almost sounds like an absence seizure (petit mal) or focal seizure?

I was thinking the same thing.

I could just cry, I guess this means we are not getting any help and I am so frustrated!

I know it is hard to not be upset since you still don't have any answers medically to go on however......
Getting an ALL CLEAR with one medical issue is actually a good thing. You can rule something out and if truth be told while dealing with a thyroid issue is easy enough the potential for additional health problems directly related to a thyroid issue is daunting.

Even if you have to start thinking outside the box you for sure know what isn't causing his issues.
Sometimes when we focus so hard on something and then wish that it will fix the problem we neglect to look at the bigger picture.
There are many things that can attribute to what is going on with him. You might just need to literally write down a list of symptoms no matter how large or small. Anything that isn't normal for him.
Set up a visit with your vet, minus dog if you have to (just a one on one consult) and discuss what they think might be wrong. Also if they are willing to help you and stick by you while you both work together towards coming up with a diagnosis and solution. If you can clear all the medical stuff then you might just be left with a behavior issue and most of them can be addressed and corrected as well (with a lot of work and assistance).

[packblt]

Thanks so much. Definitely not good to see results not expecting at 1 am after a stressful few days.

I am really glad that we have something to rule out and have started the list with the symptoms. I'm also glad that we used Hemopet because possibly they may be able to recommend additional testing that can be done for allergies and sensitivities. I am still trying to rack my brain to figure out why this only happens to him from early April through August and only about a total of three times. It's as if his body can't handle the extra load of more hours in the day and a more rigorous daily schedule since we are outside playing alot more with extra daylight hours and the clocks being turned back. Then when the summer ends and we go back to a schedule where we are inside and there are more sleeping hours, there are no problems at all. Also, it seems that it happens the same day or a day later after and extremely exciting/stressful day. Tyson slept so much from last fall to now that he gained 9 - 10 pounds and has a bald spot on his belly from laying down so much! Not normal!

I was shocked today when the new vet called at 7:00 pm to discuss the preliminary results we received from Hemopet! I think we have a keeper! He had originally said that if the results for thyroid were negative we would consult a veterinary behaviorist as that may be of more help than my current behaviorist that is not a vet but relied on my previous vet that Tyson was perfectly healthy. However, now he thinks we should go to a neurologist first. He is calling in the referral tomorrow. I'm so happy that he is going to help us!

[packblt]

So we went for a neurology visit on Thursday. All info was taken by neuro intern, then Tyson was taken for the exam with neurologist and they all came back to the room to give me some answers. As usual, explaining away his medical symptoms and will give me a referral to veterinary behaviorist. I don't have a problem with that but I do have a problem with some of the reasons for his medical symptoms dismissals. I know there is something medically wrong with Tyson, I just know. I am totally ok with going to go the veterinary behaviorist but they will not see the real Tyson - just what's left at this point. But here are the some of the reasons he gave me for a few of the symptoms:

Weight gain - he is eating more. No - his food is measured. Then he must be eating the other dogs food. No, they are separated at meal time so I know exactly who eats what and at one point they were on different foods so I needed to keep close track. Of course this is where I get the look of disbelief that I am shooting holes in his explanations.

Lethargy - he is now an adult dog and a low engergy dog. Well gee that's funny, he used to be the high energy dog and now he can't keep up or even stay awake!

Fur loss - it doesn't look that bad (the inside of his thighs are totally bald) and the bald spot in the center of his belly with the skin tags if from him laying down so much. Well, I have seen alot of adult dogs and no others that lay down so much the fur is worn off their bellies?!

So, needless to say, I wasn't happy and he was shocked(and obviously annoyed) that I would dare to question him. Also, he mentions that these behavioral episodes are a direct result of the other dog getting in his personal space and the dominant dog will not allow that. Well great, but in my house Tyson is on the bottom of the ladder and happy to be there. He is always licking the muzzle and appeasing the other two - always, except for the rare and extreme outbursts which I have now realized are only after there is extreme excitement - like off the chart. Never happens at the height of the moment, but at some point after if there is the slightest re-excitement. Of course he is thinking of a way to dismiss this, but in the interim says he is a little unhappy with Tyson's heart rate - not slowing at all and quite high during this entire visit. Would like me to bring him back on Friday for an abdominal ultrasound and would like to do a cortisol test. Possibly, but not likely, that there may be something there, thinking maybe Cushings, but unlikely.

Also, must add that I have blood work from within 12 hours after the episode that shows high levels of Amylase, Lipase and CPK and bloodwork done 8 days later shows normal in those ranges but protein is slightly high. Also, T4 went from 1.8 to 1.38 (Dr. Dodds comment was "T4 low and could be higher, but not likely not a thryroid issue"). Also, his sugar is a the very top of the normal range whether he is fasting or not.

Ok so I know nothing medically, but somehow I am thinking there was something chemically different in him at the time of the episode and this needs to be looked into, not dismissed as the elevated levels are "really not high enough for any further investigation". Of course at this point my blood is boiling, I am nausous and have a crazy migraine, but I am getting additional testing so I am somewhat happy because deep down inside I have this nagging feeling this is a crazy hormone imbalance that happens to him as the result of the extreme, over the top excitement.

So, I bring him to the hospital by 8 am on Friday so he can have his ultrasound and 8 hour cortisol testing with 3 samples. Get a call at 4:45 by vet tech that he is ready to be picked up. I ask about the testing, she says Dr. left a message on my home phone. Why? I gave them my cel number. She gets Dr. on the phone who tells me that Tyson's ultrasound showed extremely small difference in size of one chamber of the heart and that it should be followed up on. Oh, and they didn't do the other testing because everything on the ultrasound appeared normal and there would have been evidence of Cushing's on the ultrasound. - This does not seem right to me. He says maybe we want to do an MRI to see if there might be evidence of some prior seizure activity.

Now, I feel like he just wants to doe the MRI for the heck of it because he made some comment about me not even thinking about it when he told me the estimate for the ultrasound and cortisol testing would be $900 - $1100 and I said ok I have to do it.

I don't even know what to do next, but Tyson is not any better and is sleeping even more than ever. Also, extreme thirst this past few weeks.

Where do I go from here?

[Gatorblu]

First off....Breathe!....Deep breath in.....hold it....s-l-o-w-l-y let it out...Now from what I just read, Cushing's Disease (Hyperadrenocorticism) in Dogs , there are two types of cushings. 80% is caused by the pituitary gland and 20% is caused by adrenal gland. Since you noticed a correlation between excitement and episodes, that would lead me to think it could be the adrenal form of cushings disease. Since it is not the most common form they may be missing this.

I would look for a new vet that is not that dismissive. While Online I saw two veterinary specialists clinics listed on Long Island; Atlantic Coast Veterinary Specialists is a Veterinary Emergency and Veterinary Referral Hospital located in Bohemia, Long Island, NY. Veterinary referral services include veterinary surgery, veterinary ultrasound, veterinary Endoscopy, veterinary car and Welcome to LIVS If you have been to one go to the other.

Good Luck! and lots of positive, healthy (((((((vibes))))))) to Tyson!