Lump on Boxer's Leg

BiscuitG · #1 2nd May 2012, 05:00 PM

My boxer has a lump on her leg. I tried to post pictures of it, but not sure if I did it correctly. I noticed it probably about 8-10 months ago. It was about half the size of a pencil eraser and a grayish pink color. She's 4 1/2 now, so she was 3 at the time I noticed it. I wasn't sure what it was, so I watched it for a couple of weeks thinking that it might be some sort of bug bite. It didn't go away, so I brought her to the vet. He said that it is a sebaceous cyst and nothing to worry about, that it might get bigger, pop, and come back, or it might just stay the same. It stayed pretty much the same, it never seemed to bother her. A couple of months ago, I noticed that it was looking larger. It's probably a little smaller than or about the same size as pencil eraser. I brought it to the vet's attention again and he again said, it's nothing to worry about, just a sebaceous cyst, as long as she didn't bother with it or chew at it, it's fine. Now it's really red looking. I'm wondering if it really is nothing to worry about. I am taking her to another vet for a second opinion, just to ease my mind basically, but they don't have an open appointment until next week. From your experience, does this look like something to worry about, or just a normal lump? Thanks so much!

http://images5a.snapfish.com/2323232...%3A73348nu0mrj

http://images3a.snapfish.com/2323232...3B887348nu0mrj

Gatorblu · #2 3rd May 2012, 12:30 AM

Boxers and their bumps....It is hard to tell what it is, and it could be a number of things. I know, not what you wanted to hear, but without a pathology you just don't know. I think you are doing the best thing getting a second opinion.

Try to relax. Worrying about the what if, doesn't do you or your pup any good. Sending lots of positive, healthy (((vibes))) to your girl.

Cami · #3 3rd May 2012, 07:53 AM

I suspect that is something other than a cyst. Great idea to have it checked out by another vet and also have a needle aspirate done to check the contents. To be honest there is no way one can tell by looking exactly what something is. Your vet might have a suspicion of what it *might* be (and guess right) or they can be totally wrong.
Keep us posted.

BiscuitG · #4 3rd May 2012, 09:09 AM

Thanks for the advice. Part of my concern is that all the vet has done is just look at it both times. Biscuit is the first dog I've ever had and this it the vet that we've used since we got her, he has at least 20 years experience, and I have no experience with dogs, so I assumed he knew what he was talking about and took his word for it that it was nothing to worry about. Since its gotten worse, I've been doing some searches online and from what I've read, a needle aspirate should have been done. I feel really bad going to another vet, but at the same time, I don't want to bring her back when he insists that it's nothing. Hopefully it is nothing. I have no experience with these types of things, but it just doesn't look right to me. Thanks for taking the time to look. I'll post an update after our visit next week and try not to worry too much about it until then

EAO76 · #5 3rd May 2012, 12:16 PM

I agree it needs to be aspirated but just to ease your mind a little my girl had a pink bump that looked similar. It got as big as a dime at one point and it turned out to be nothing. Hopefully yours will be nothing too.

Tuff Love · #6 3rd May 2012, 01:59 PM

Also backing up the aspirate. A vet with 20 years experience should know that boxers are prone to bumps (and cancer) and at the very least it should be inspected further for irregular cells if it is in fact getting larger. I wouldn't panic or anything but I would press the aspirate next time you see him. Hopefully it is nothing

BiscuitG · #7 8th May 2012, 05:58 PM

I just got back from the vet with Biscuit for our second opinion. She suspects that the bump is a mast cell tumor. She said that she thinks that is what it is because of the way that it gets red and inflamed and then goes to looking calm, or not irritated. She said when it is inflamed, it is likely the tumor releasing hystamine. She did say that they are usually benign, and that this one is really small, so it is good that it was caught early. She said that we could have it removed and send it in to be tested, do a needle aspirate and send that in to be tested, or give her benadryl for a month or two to see if that stops it from getting inflammed. If it does still get inflammed on the benadryl, she said that might make her think that it is a histiocytoma. So, I think I will do the benadryl for a month and see how that effects it. If it does not get inflamed, I will then decide wether to just get it removed, or if to have it tested to see if it really needs to be removed. She did mention that if we did just leave it, it will likely get bigger over the years and can turn into cancer even if it isn't yet and the larger it is the harder it would be to remove. Thanks for the advice so far. Any more comments or suggestions would be helpful. I'm sort of really not knowing what to do at this point. It's hard to go with another vet's opinion after seeing one vet for years. It was hard to get the second opinion in the first place, but I do feel like what she is saying makes more sense than what my vet said.

Cami · #8 9th May 2012, 07:51 AM

I hope some of this makes sense but if it doesn't please know that it is only because I am stunned and nearly speechless.

Re-read this as many times as you have to in order for it to stick.

All mast cell tumors are CANCEROUS. They are malignant. They are NOT, NEVER, NO WAY, NO HOW a benign tumor. CANCER. Plain and simple.

When I originally replied to your post I did not mention the word cancer or mast cell tumor but rather I said I had a suspicion that the growth was not a cyst. What I was actually thinking was in fact that it was a mast cell tumor. Hopefully a grade 1 which is a slow growing cancerous tumor that *some* vets like to refer to as "benign ACTING", meaning they are not often known to spread to internal organs, grow very quickly or get terribly large.

I've personally seen over 16 mast cell tumors on one of my own dogs and a large handful of them on other dogs. They are called "great imitators" because they can look, act and feel like so many other lumps, growths, bumps and even other types of cancer. The majority of my girls all looked the same. I could tell (based on my experience with hers) when she was even getting another one. I could diagnose them on HER since they all pretty much presented the same (minus one which was under the skin and initially aspirated by her vet and deemed a fatty cyst). That one in particular ended up being the most problematic, largest and of a higher grade.

Hystiocytomas can't turn into cancer so leaving the growth there if it were a hystio won't make it eventually turn to something else. It can certainly become problematic if it grows and affects surrounding tissue, muscle, bone, etc...

A MCT doesn't change either. A grade 1 will always be a grade 1 and a grade 2 will always be a grade 2, etc....

The problem lies in not knowing what something is exactly. You have pretty much already played the "wait and see" game for the past 8-10 months. You have noticed changes for the WORSE, not better.

If this is a MCT the Benadryl may be helpful in that it will slow down the production of histamine, perhaps keep the tumor from getting "angry" (swelling and red looking) but it won't correct the issue. The cancer will still be there. Benadryl is a band-aid which can sometimes help symptoms.

I sincerely hope this is not a mast cell tumor and just an annoying hystiocytoma or anything else besides cancer. But please don't take the ill advised (and reckless) advice from the vet who told you that most mast cell tumors are benign. None of them are.

I am not trying to scare you and please know that what I wrote was meant to help you not offend or freak you out. There are many posts here on BW concerning so many who have had to deal with a mast cell cancer diagnosis. There is a lot of information contained in the posts as well that you might find helpful.

Gatorblu · #9 9th May 2012, 08:33 AM

I agree with everything Susi said. I will tell you this. Thor had a bump that I was told was a probably cyst. We had another health issue at the time and surgery to remove it was not an option then. So the "cyst" was put on the back burner. My husband was in the Army at the time and we got orders to move, again the "cyst" was put on hold. After the move it took about 6 weeks to find a new vet. On our first visit they did the needle aspirate. The cyst was a mct. My heart sank. My boy had cancer for 6 months and I had done nothing. He was in surgery the next day. Thankfully it was a grade I, but since I put it off it had grown. The size of the incision was frightening large. They wanted clean margins.

Considering where Biscuits bump is I would, at the very least, do the needle aspirate to be sure you know what you are dealing with. But from my experience, and yes it is my experience so I am a bit overly cautious now, I would just get it removed and sent out. I would not want it growing as there isn't much skin there for them to get clean margins. So the smaller the bump the less they have to take.

Again this is my opinion from my own experience. You have to decide what is best for your own dog.

BiscuitG · #10 9th May 2012, 10:40 AM

Thanks for all of the advice. I am even more confused now.

I've been to two vets, one said it was just a cyst, the other said it was a mast cell tumor that she thinks is benign. I have my husband saying that his parents' boxer had the same exact thing and that the vet said it was a cyst and nothing to worry over. She passed away a year ago at 9. This is the same vet that gave us the same diagnosis for Biscuit. I could take her to a third vet, but what if they tell me something completely different? You said that you've dealt with 16 MCTs. How did the dogs behave? Did they bother with them or not pay any attention to them? Biscuit never bother's with the lump. How old were the dogs? I've read that the average age for them to occur is 8-10, but that they can occur earlier. Biscuit is 4. Is that unusual?

I found this online:
Mast cell tumors are common, accounting for 10 to 20 percent of skin tumors in dogs.About half of them are malignant. Brachycephalic breeds, such as Boxers, Boston Terriers, and Bulldogs, have a higher incidence. However, mast cell tumors can occur in all dogs. In Bernese Mountain Dogs, mast cell tumors are especially common and are inherited as a polygenic trait.

Also this:
Grade I: Occur in the skin and are considered benign. Although they may be large and difficult to remove, they tend to not spread to other areas of the body. Most mast cell tumors are Grade I.

I don't know if "considered benign" is meaning "benign acting" like you refered to or if it just means benign. It really bothers me that I got such a different diagnosis from two different very experienced vets. Would a needle aspirate give a definate answer as to what it is? So that if it is a MCT i can get it removed, or if it's not, I could leave it alone? I know I should have asked that questions to the vet, but Biscuit was so nervous and it was so much information I just need time to process it all. Also, and maybe this is a dumb question, but she said she had to send it out? Could she not look at it under a microscope? Did you have to send out for results with Thor? How long is the wait? Surgery really freaks me out too. I really hope it does not come to that.

Cami · #11 9th May 2012, 11:50 AM

Forgot to mention....
For a growth that size you can request a punch biopsy. The instrument used can remove a tumor of that size (based on the picture) and your pup will walk away with a couple of stitches. The entire tumor can be sent to a lab and you can obtain the pathology report with the findings.
This isn't surgery, per-say, but it is an option that isn't often utilized. I had this done on smaller tumors for my girl on many occasions and highly preferred them to the recovery time it took from the more in depth traditional surgeries.
Of course you always have the option of killing off the tumor with Vetalog injections but only after an official diagnosis of a MCT has been made.

BiscuitG · #12 9th May 2012, 12:41 PM

Your 12:50 thread hadn't appeared yet when I last posted. I did a search on here as you recommended for MCTs. Is anesthesia needed for punch biopsy? I don't know why that worries me so much. She was spayed and did fine with that surgery. I have this terrible fear that something bad might happen. I guess everyone does when putting their pet through surgery. I've also seen you talking about vetalog in several posts. The vet didn't even mention that as an option. I still have no idea what to do. I know I will get it tested, just not sure if I should go back to my original vet and ask him to do it, or go to the vet I saw yesterday. Also not sure if I should do the needle aspirsate or ask for the punch biopsy. I just hope that in the end, we won't have to do surgery. I think that I will take a couple weeks to think on all of it. I want to make sure that I do what's best for her. She hates the vet, I feel so bad that she has to go through this. Thanks so much for all of your help.