Palladia info? side effects?

[EAO76]

Originally Posted by Cami

If Raine, God forbid develops a cancer that Palladia *might* treat I can't say I would use it but don't let others opinions sway your decision.

Why? Because of the possible side effects?

I have read & read and it seems like the majority of the cases the Palladia works (slows growth or reduces tumor size) for about 12weeks and then stops working. This seems similar to Indy’s experience too. I have yet to come across someone’s story where their dog had NO side effects although there are a few that have very little. If Trucker’s tumor was a MCT I would be more excited about this option but being a soft tissue sarcoma I just am not finding much info/ hope.

I also read that the higher the Mitotic figure of the tumors the more likely it was to spread and the less likely Palladia would “work”. Truckers mitotic figure was high (23-24 per 10 high power fields) I really don’t know what that means exactly and again this is not a MCT so I don’t know how much that matters.

[Independence]

In the case of MCT's the Palladia was used for higher grades. During the trial they didn't see as much success with Grades 1 and 2 and they did with the 3's. And I can only speak for my dog, and I think the pro's outweighed the con's when it came to the medication. All of Indy's side effects were controlled with medications. I made a deal with him when he started when he wasn't happy anymore or if the bad was outweighing the good then we would stop immediately. We didn't get a choice as the meds quit working. He had a great run and we had another couple of months with our precious boy.

It is such a tough decision to make and you have to do what is right for you and Trucker. Go with you heart and do what you think is best for him. I don't wish what you are going thru on anyone. We've been there and struggled with what to do. It sucks... I'm sorry...

[Sansal]

Originally Posted by EAO76

Why? Because of the possible side effects?


I also read that the higher the Mitotic figure of the tumors the more likely it was to spread and the less likely Palladia would “work”. Truckers mitotic figure was high (23-24 per 10 high power fields) I really don’t know what that means exactly and again this is not a MCT so I don’t know how much that matters.

I would think it also matters for Truckers tumor, if the mitotic rate is high it means that the cells are dividing rapidly - which you can also tell by how fast the tumor grew back after surgery. It does increase risk for metastasis and it probably also makes it less likely for the palladia to keep the growth of the tumor in check (but obviously I am not a vet).

In human medicine we tend to treat too much in the last months/weeks of life and often comfort measures will increase quality of life (and sometimes even length) more than aggressive forms of therapy. There is a huge trend going on towards a more palliative care approach. I know this can't be compared 1:1 to veterinary care but keep in mind that "doing nothing" is sometimes better than doing something.

Continuing to send (((positive vibes))) your way, whatever you choose to do it will be the right thing for Trucker.

[Cami]

Why? Because of the possible side effects?

I guess I should have clarified this a bit more.
With Cami I knew her and what she was capable of. I don't YET know Raine's true self, what she is capable of or if she could/would want to handle treatment that had the potential to cause side effects that might lessen the quality of life.
Cami was such a trooper and I knew that early on in as far as she pretty much always had to fight *something* be it d-mange, broken leg, allergies, cancer, heart, thyroid, etc...
Raine (at this point in time) seems more "fragile" to me (personality-wise) and since I don't quite know ALL of her I would think she wasn't able to handle something stressful. This could very well change as time goes on or she could very well surprise the heck out of me. She is more dependent where as Cami was much the opposite. I rely heavily on their personalities to help guide me with various treatments. Raine constantly runs in to things and gets "ouchies" she immediately looks to me to soothe her. Cami could run THROUGH something and I would know it was painful but she wouldn't miss a beat and surely didn't seek me out in those situations. She wanted me if she was not feeling well or frightened of something (Raine is fearless and has yet to not feel well).
Cami was more of a "let's kick this cancers butt" type of personality...."bring it on" (treatment) and Raine is more of a "you fix it mommy" type of girl (today at her young age). Again this could change and or my opinion of what I would feel up to might change.

You know your guy best based on your experiences in the past, the time spent together and how he has reacted to situations up till now.

I believe that Palladia had more success (or was more warranted) with tumors having a mitotic index above 5 (with respect to MCT's). The higher the number means more chance of the tumor returning. It tells you what a tumor is capable of (so to speak). A higher number often means a more aggressive form of the cancer (faster growing and a higher chance of metastases), although some cancers (tumors) can grow quickly but not spread to organs.

When Cami was so very sick the last 6 weeks of her life we tried everything they offered us. She was taking 22 pills per day. We knew going in that the cocktail they were trying had never been tried before. She wasn't a textbook case. One medication (for example) wasn't typically used to treat symptom A as it could cause symptom B but she already had B so what was it going to hurt (in their minds)?
I tried whatever they suggested because NO ONE ever told me that we were not going to "turn her around". I knew she was always going to have heart issues but we were trying to manage them. Had just ONE person told me that she wasn't ever going to get better I would have stopped trying....not stopping to help her but stop trying to fix her (if that makes sense)?
She told me herself (by refusing one of the meds out of the many she was taking). She knew better than me.

There isn't anything saying that you can't do a trial run with the medication. Be proactive with the potential side effects (nausea/diarrhea & things you can counteract and expect going in) and then choose to stop at the first sign of something worse (if it were to happen). It may prove to be beneficial in that the tumor shrinks or stops growing. No one will ever fault you for doing what you think is right. It is a hard decision to make. Like someone else mentioned as well.... sometimes doing nothing is also the right thing.

Sending you prayers that you can make a decision that helps you both. My heart breaks for you and the situation you are in.

[EAO76]

Well I called the vets office to order two weeks worth of the Palladia. Our vet wasn’t in so they said they'd give her the message first thing tomorrow. It ships from another state so I don’t know how soon we will get it. She told me a day or two but since tomorrow is a Saturday that may delay things another couple of days. I wasn’t going to order it but the tumor just keeps growing and now he limps and holds the leg up most of the time. Last night he was running in from going potty and only using three legs and it just broke my heart so that was my turning point. Of course now I am feeling guilty for waiting so long, second guessing my decision not to amputate, etc. It’s so hard to know what the right decision is…

[Cami]

Stop beating yourself up.

You researched and are taking things into consideration. To do otherwise would be reckless.
You have made a decision and one that you didn't come to easily.
Whether it means anything or not I believe that his limping WAS a sign for you to help aid in your decision making process.
I hope the medication not only offers some relief from the tumor growth but relief for you as well in that you will feel as if you are doing everything in your power to help your guy.

[Sansal]

Completely agree with Susi.

Hugs

[EAO76]

His tumor continues to grow fast. He will barely use his leg now. I called the vet this morning and the Palladia will be in tomorrow. Fingers crossed for no side effects and tumor shrinkage.

[Independence]

Fingers and paws crossed. We'll be praying for you all.

[EAO76]

Ugh our meds just finally came in today. So we will start them tonight. I am scheduled for a c-section on the 14th. We are going to be leaving the dogs at home while we are in the hospital (four days) and my husband was just going to go back & forth to feed them and check on them. With Truck and Fluffy being sick I did not want to take them out of the home or disrupt their routine and since Trucker is not friendly with strangers we cannot have a pet sitter come here. So he is going to be alone a lot. This is freaking me out now that we are starting this medicine. From what I have read most dogs start to have the side effects during the second week (the week we will be gone). I don't want to delay starting the meds though because his tumor is growing so fast. He no longer uses his leg at all. I really hope this all works out ok and he doesn't get really sick.

I just read this thread about Loki and how he collapsed during the second week and needed fluids. This is not easing my mind any!
Loki starts Palladia tomorrow

[johann]

Do you have any friends that he knows really well that could come check on him for the four days you are gone? I'm sure he will be ok, but I'm sure it would reassure you while you're in the hospital.

[EAO76]

Originally Posted by johann

Do you have any friends that he knows really well that could come check on him for the four days you are gone? I'm sure he will be ok, but I'm sure it would reassure you while you're in the hospital.

The only other person Trucker really LOVES is my father in law. He is the only one I know for sure could come in & out of my house without any reaction from Trucker but he is going to have my three year old son & my two other Boxers. Other than my father in law Trucker really has only bonded to his trainers. We should have made more of an effort to have him make more “friends” but most of our friends/ family aren’t really “dog people” and Truck can be a handful so we just got into this terrible habit of sheltering him from stuff. This was really poor planning on our part but with this all popping up in the last three weeks and everything that we have going on it sort of caught us off guard.

Well we started the meds tonight. He is only taking 60mgs right now. From what I am reading that is a pretty low dose (Truck has lost weight and is about 59lbs). I hope its a high enough dose to help?? I guess I need to trust that the vet knows what she is doing. He is also taking a drug called Misoprostol which prevents stomach ulcers and I am giving him OTC Imodium. He will take the Palladia ever other day and on his off days he takes Piroxicam which is an NSAID that is used to treat some cancers.

I do have a question for you guys...the instructions/ warning say, not let kids (or pregnant people) anywhere near the drug, use gloves when handling, don't touch his feces or vomit, dispose of it in a seal bag, ect. It also says the drug will be excreted in the urine. How concerned about the urine should I be? The poop is easy because he always goes in one place but he pees all over the yard. Did those of you who have used this drug do anything special when it came to your dogs urine? I guess my concern is that the other dogs & my son are always in the yard playing. I don't really want to leash him to go potty as we pretty much just leave the door open all day for the dogs to go in & out.