Trying to be proactive when it comes to arthritis

sriley · #1 11-02-2009, 07:43 PM

I have two pups well under the age of 1 and I realize that arthritis isn't really a concern right now, but my previous Boxer developed arthritis in one of his knees at around the age of 6 and I want do whatever I can to prevent or minimize the odds that my new babies will develop arthritis. As many of you know, I lost my first Boxer to cardiomyopathy a little over two months ago and when my vet clinic did a chest x-ray to diagnose his heart condition, my vet also discovered that he had developed arthritis in his spine. He was only 8 years old. So, I apologize if I'm being slightly paranoid, but I just don't want to see my new fur babies go through the same pain and discomfort as Buddy did. Buddy was on chondroitin/glucosamine for the last 2 years of his life. When his arthritis worsened, he was put on Deremaxx and/or Rimadyl (two drugs I'm not exactly thrilled about). Is there an ideal age to start giving Boxers a chondroitin/glucosamine supplement? Are there any other supplements that are helpful in preventing arthritis or reducing the odds of developing it? I'm occasionally supplementing my boys' Orijen meals with raw. The cartilage and bone is ground right in with the meat and I'm told this is excellent for their joints and is a good arthritis preventative. As always, thank you for your advice.

BxrMommieNAZ · #2 11-03-2009, 01:56 AM

I typically start a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM combo pill around 3 years of age in my dogs. That and then I give fish oil adn vitamin E their entire lives (which are both natural anti-inflammatories). I also feed a grain free diet (kibble but still grain free) and give apple cider vinegar (the kidn with the mother in it not the stuff you get for salads). Hope that helps some.

sriley · #3 11-03-2009, 08:40 AM

Thanks for the tips. I asked my vet a while ago about fish oil and was told that it won't help with arthritis, but it would improve a dog's skin and coat. Buddy was on vitamin E once to give his liver a boost after a bout of pancreatitis. I will continue feeding my boys a raw diet as they LOVE it and I've only had good results with raw feeding. If it will also help keep their joints in good, working order, it's a win-win for everyone. Thanks again.

BxrMommieNAZ · #4 11-03-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sriley

Thanks for the tips. I asked my vet a while ago about fish oil and was told that it won't help with arthritis, but it would improve a dog's skin and coat. Buddy was on vitamin E once to give his liver a boost after a bout of pancreatitis. I will continue feeding my boys a raw diet as they LOVE it and I've only had good results with raw feeding. If it will also help keep their joints in good, working order, it's a win-win for everyone. Thanks again.

Sorry but your vet is very wrong. Fish oil in higher doses is a natural anti-inflammatory which makes it a natural joint soother. Arthritis causes inflammation in the joints, fish oil keeps the inflammation down thus prolonging a pain free existance. It won't help with arthritis in prevention but it will help keep down any joint inflammation in the body, thus keeping away the symptoms and pain of arthritis for much longer than non therapy alone. My girl's has arthritis for going on 4 years now and we were able to stay off RX medication for 3 of those years by feeding 6,000mg of fish oil daily (she's 62 pounds) in conjunction with Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM and Vitamin E. And I definitely saw a HUGE difference in her in times that I ran out of the fish oil for sure.

sriley · #5 11-03-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BxrMommieNAZ

Sorry but your vet is very wrong.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time my vet has led me astray. I've decided to switch clinics for a variety of reasons, the latest being ace use in Boxers.

BxrMommieNAZ · #6 11-03-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sriley

Well, it wouldn't be the first time my vet has led me astray. I've decided to switch clinics for a variety of reasons, the latest being ace use in Boxers.

Well in their defense, most vets do not use "homeopathic" options for treating stuff like that. So most vets do not know a lot about fish oil or recommend it for much beyond dry skin and coats. For that kind of advice you would do better with a homeopathic/alternative medicine vet rather than a traditional vet.

**gmacleod** · #7 11-03-2009, 05:54 PM

If you're feeding a decent amount of bone, there is nothing to be gained from adding glucosamine/chondroitin as supplements. Like most things, those substances are MUCH more bioavailable in natural form - and you're already feeding the natural form

Supplements like that are useful when diet is inadequate and the dog isn't already getting what he should be from his food. This is why tales such as that from Sinsa above are not unusual - you don't need to supplement raw diets, because the diet is already adequate (hence the apparent "miraculous" improvement for older dogs swapped to natural food - it's a very very common tale). You don't really say how much raw meat/bone you're feeding, but if it is a reasonable proportion of your dog's food intake OR you're able to increase it to a reasonable proportion, then I wouldn't bother with the proxies (the real thing is better

)

Lizzie · #8 11-03-2009, 07:02 PM

My now 10 and half years old female Diva had natural supplements when she was younger. In her younger years Diva could jump 6 foot and climb a further 4 foot - no kidding! X-rays of her spine show quite marked arthritis as well as in her leg joints - no surprise given her jumping prowess in her younger days. My vet was amazed that she can walk, let alone run, but she does. I did not particularly want to start her on Rimadyl or similar and so my vet suggested we try pentosan polyshulphate injections. The improvement was quite dramatic - running around with my male boxer Monty quite freely. She had a series of four injections over a period of four weeks and this cycle will be repeated every three months or so. I have also had Monty on these injections (he had a middle balancing toe amputated some years back and now has quite a muntered looking foot, although it is still functional) as he limps when he has been doing a lot of running around. It doesn't seem to have made much difference for him, but it certainly made a difference for Diva.

sriley · #9 11-03-2009, 09:12 PM

Many thanks for the informative replies.

gmacleod: I'm currently feeding each pup 3/4 of a cup of Orijen Large Breed Puppy three times per day. When I supplement (which is usually once every day at dinner time), I feed them each a 1/2 cup of Orijen and add a 1/4 pound of raw to each of their dishes (this is the amount suggested by my vet). So far, the raw has consisted of ground chicken or extra lean ground beef. The ground chicken contains the bone and cartilage and that is what I typically use when I add raw to my pups' diets. I often add a vegetable to the mix, as well (usually carrots or squash). They also get apple and watermelon pieces every now and then. I'm not sure how much bone is mixed in with the chicken meat. I actually have to order more ground, raw chicken tomorrow, so I will ask. I was told to wait on feeding the pups whole chicken bones or carcasses until they're at least 6 months of age. How much bone is ideal for them? Should I increase the amount of raw/bone I'm currently providing for them? I've been reading up on raw feeding, but admit I am new to the BARF diet game. If raw feeding and natural bone will keep their joints healthy, I'm more than happy to indulge my boys

Murp.mm · #10 11-04-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzie

My now 10 and half years old female Diva had natural supplements when she was younger. In her younger years Diva could jump 6 foot and climb a further 4 foot - no kidding! X-rays of her spine show quite marked arthritis as well as in her leg joints - no surprise given her jumping prowess in her younger days. My vet was amazed that she can walk, let alone run, but she does. I did not particularly want to start her on Rimadyl or similar and so my vet suggested we try pentosan polyshulphate injections. The improvement was quite dramatic - running around with my male boxer Monty quite freely. She had a series of four injections over a period of four weeks and this cycle will be repeated every three months or so. I have also had Monty on these injections (he had a middle balancing toe amputated some years back and now has quite a muntered looking foot, although it is still functional) as he limps when he has been doing a lot of running around. It doesn't seem to have made much difference for him, but it certainly made a difference for Diva.

Thanks for that info on pentosan polyshulphate injections. My girl had ACL sugery back in June and tomorrow against my better judgement she's having more surgery on the same knee. I don't think she'll ever be the same and I'm still on two minds as what to do. She does have arthritis and I'm glad to hear that this injection works for your dog. My girl is on glucosomine HCL and Omega 3 with vitamin E included and I've just started her on Apple Cider vinegar. She's also on Deramaxx over the past two weeks. I'm hoping over time it will help her. I will mention this injection to my vet once she has her surgery and is on the mend. Thanks again.

P.S Any side effects?