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  #1  
Old 31st October 2006, 11:51 AM
Brynn1508's Avatar
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Question can mange come back?

Can mange come back once a pup has fully recovered? My foster had mange- very severly at that. He is fine now but I was curious if it can come back. Also are there any supplements, etc that can help prevent this?

He already gets an omega 3 supplement for healthy skin...
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  #2  
Old 31st October 2006, 12:02 PM
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wow ok- He is getting RAW now. Any supplements I should add? does manage stay with him for life?

 
  #3  
Old 31st October 2006, 02:31 PM
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Actually Brynn, it depends on the type of mange he had

1. Demodex Mange - this is basically an overproduction of a naturally occuring mite that is related to an immune depressive issue. Meaning it is a life long issue. Care will need to be taken with respect to keeping the immune system up and running at peak. This can be done with a high quality diet (raw being the best), reduction of stress (which negatively effects the immune system) and immediately treating any localized spots with goodwinol ointment.
Bad News with D-Mange is that it is a lifelong issue
Good News with D-Mange is that it is not contaigous
2. Sarcoptic Mange - this is an infestation of a particular mite that is not naturally occuring on the body. This means that the mite must be killed. Most often the mitaban dips or even an ivermectin shot will cure this problem.
Bad News with S-Mange - this is highly CONTAIGOUS to all, it is the same mite that causes Scabies in humans
Good News with S-Mange - it is cureable, but the animal can be re-infected

So in answer to your question, Yes it is possible to get Mange again, regardless of type. The treatment options should be different though.
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Last edited by ladyluck_t; 31st October 2006 at 02:34 PM.

 
  #4  
Old 31st October 2006, 06:34 PM
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From what I know he suffered from generialized mange (his whole body was raw). The previous owners said it was something passed down from mom- maybe the Sarcoptic Mange. I should note also his mange was allowed to progress very far before he saw a vet as written in his records.
As you can see I am a bit vague on details. His vet records only list mange...
We will continue to feed him the best food possible and hopefully this will never be show again Thanks!

 
  #5  
Old 1st November 2006, 03:12 AM
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If it was "passed by Mom" then they're probably talking about demodectic mange. Demodectic mites are indeed passed from mother to infants in the first days of life. What people don't seem to realise though is that that's to every infant. All dogs have demodectic mites, all of the time. They're a natural flora of the coat and live inside the hair follicules in harmony with their host. You have them too, btw, albeit a slightly different species.

Mange only occurs when the dog has an immune system deficiency which allows the mites to multiply out of control, causing damage to the hair follicules, and hence hair loss. It is not normally a life-long problem. Demodex is often called puppy mange - for the reason that the vast majority of animals affected are puppies. And they don't have defective immune systems, they simply have as-yet undeveloped immune systems (immunity to disease isn't something you're born with, it's something that develops over time - and why children are more vulnerable than adults). Once that immune system develops, the individual will recover from the mange all on their own with no intervention at all, thanks very much That applies to over 90% of cases (so for 90% of dogs, demodex is NOT a lifelong issue).

Your dog, however, is one of the 10% of cases for whom it is likely to be a lifelong issue. And that's because he developed generalised mange. That indicates an actual problem with the immune system, not just an animal whose immune system wasn't fully developed at the time. Now that can occur in cases of extreme hardship, of course. A dog half starved to death, for example, is going to be very vulnerable to disease - and when properly fed and cared for will rebound. But in most cases, you're talking about a defective immune system - which means he'll be vulnerable all his life (and not only to the development of mange).

It's worth noting that defective immune systems are hereditary, so any dog that either develops generalised mange or is treated for localised mange must never be used for breeding. His parents and siblings should not be bred again either (not that any of that is likely to be within your control - but it's a fact worth noting should you ever run across some idiot who wants to breed a dog with a defective immune system).
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  #6  
Old 1st November 2006, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmacleod View Post
...Demodectic mites are indeed passed from mother to infants in the first days of life. What people don't seem to realise though is that that's to every infant.
That is what I thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmacleod View Post
...Your dog, however, is one of the 10% of cases for whom it is likely to be a lifelong issue.
To provide some history this poor boy was purchased through a broker for a puppy mill.
Although it appears he may have an immune system weakness- is it possible his mange was brought on by potential (I use that term loosely) abuse and lack of nutrition? I unfortunately have no idea what he was feed prior to 4 1/2 months but once the mange developed they put him on Evo and a variety of supplements.

And gmacleod is feeding Raw enough? I want to make sure we do everything in our power to prevent a reoccurrence.

 
  #7  
Old 1st November 2006, 07:22 AM
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It is certainly possible that that could have been a contributing factor. What age was he when the mange developed? Sounds a bit like it's a pup we're talking about? In which case, a still-developing immune system could be part of the picture also.

That said, it is still generalised mange that he suffered from. That points strongly to an individual with a defective immune system. As already mentioned, 90% of puppies who develop mange due to their immune systems being underdeveloped only ever have localised mange and recover from it all on their own (and most don't get mange at all, despite all having the mites).

As for how to prevent recurrances - you've got to look at the whole immune system picture. Nutrition is a big factor certainly - it's the underpinner of health. So a balanced raw diet is a very positive step forward there. But nutrition/support to the immune system is still only part of the picture. The other part is what else does his immune system have to deal with? We bombard our pets with a range of hits - vaccinations, de-worming, surgeries (including spay/neuter), and flea/tick treatments. Those are all big demands on the immune system. It's not to say don't do it either. But it's a case of being aware and weighing up advantages/disadvantages and timing - rather than blindly firing treatments into the dog on a monthly basis without regard for whether it is strictly required or not.

For example - if you live somewhere where flea infestations are a major problem, then you'd probably be wise to treat regularly. But if you don't? Why pile on the pesticides? And it *is* pesticide.

Same goes for things like regular deworming (which includes heartworm treatments). Is it really required where you live? (I don't know the answer to that, btw - just illustrating the point). Possibly you're in a part of the US where it is required part of the year, but not on a year-round basis (there are very specific temperature requirements for development of heartworm larvae). If that is your case, then it would be very much better for the dog and his immune system not to be given pesticide except when necessary. For other parasites, test regularly for their presence, and treat only if needed.

Vaccinations are another thing. They're an enormous hit to the immune system. So are they actually needed? Maybe. How often? Certainly not more than once every three years (bear in mind that even the manufacturers warrent immunity for 4-7 years, immunologists say rather longer - even lifetime). That's something worth doing a bit of research on - there's a lot of information out there on both the benefits and the harm done by regular vaccinations. Many people now choose to do the puppy shots only.

All of those considerations are case-by-case, and likely to be affected by where you live (including from a legal perspective). There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer, so you need to weigh up the various risks and benefits and make decisions from there. I'd advise giving only what is strictly necessary. But if 'necessary' for where you live means all those treatments, don't hit him with the lot in one go. So often we head off to the vet for shots - get the whole range, rabies included, and then add the flea/tick and deworming treatments on top. That's a lot for any animal to deal with in one go, let alone one with a suspect immune system.

Does that all make sense? Supporting his immune system is something that needs to be thought about from both sides. Give him all the help you can with diet, but apply a lot of thought weighing up the benefits and risks to any stresses as well. And when a stress does have to be applied, try to manage the timing of it so he's neither overwhelmed by a cocktail of different treatments, nor constantly bombarded if it's possible.

 
  #8  
Old 1st November 2006, 08:47 AM
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Thank you so much for all that info.
Cylis was 4 and 1/2 months- he is now 10 months old.

We are a seasonal area so in the winter we do not give heart worm meds or flea and tick treatments- unless it does not get cold like last winter. I do not give boratella either after the puppy shots.

I was more concerned when one of the various vet websites out there listed cancer as a potential cause of generalized mange- however I know not to take what is on the internet at face value. I am doing my research now so if it ever does pop up again I am able to treat it correctly immediately and hopefully through a preventative program it never will come back.