Good breeder? Answers from breeder listed!

[Draymia]

Lots and Lots of red flags here. This person strikes me as in for the money and could care less about the dogs.

Many of her answers do not sound like a good ethical breeder. Let's just start with why she is breeding at all. She does not show or health test, so how does she even know if her dogs are truly healthy and even come close to the breed standard. I know you are just looking for a pet, but backyard breeders are not the place to go.

A couple of worrisome answers from the breeder.

May I ask why you do not have a website?
- I use the ************************** website, it has been the best form of advertisement, plus this is not a business, it is a hobby for me, so keeping costs low is important as well.

If it is not a business, then why is she advertising at all?


How often is she bred?
-I only breed eligible females 1 time a year and only 3-4 times in the life time.

Only one time a year? and only 3-4 times??? My bitches are bred maybe twice in their lives and that is after they have passed all of their health tests and usually finished their championship. I can't see why anyone would want to breed a bitch four times, except to make money.


His mother which was mine as well was placed in a new home about 3 years ago after I quit breeding her.

This really burns me. She used the poor girl for litters and loved her so much as her "hobby" that she gets rid of her. Not good.

I am afraid that people like this breeder is one of the reasons that we have a massive over-population problem with boxers. She also has pugs, which is another $$$$$ breed. Her vaccinations are started way to early and the pups are in the garage? Mine are in my bedroom.

I would pass on this litter and keep looking. I know it is very difficult to find a good ethical breeder with a nice litter, but hang in there.

[OurFirstPup]

You all bring very good points, all of which I've considered myself. I just dont know what to do until I talk to their vet and see them in person. I dont want to drive for three hours just to satisfy my curiosity, I would rather do it once, when the puppies had their vet check and when its ready to be picked up. If what the vet says does not sit well with me and if I don't like the conditions in her house, then I'll just leave empty handed. I'd much rather wait than put myself through the heartache with a poorly bred puppy.

[whiskers]

Yeah, a few things caught my attention as well.

Any concerns about thyroid/heart/hip problems with parents or puppies in the past?
-Nothing that I have been made aware of.

Obviously no health testing is done. And this is where I want my breeder to be TOTALLY honest with me... maybe I'm just a little bit ignorant, but if she's been breeding for 15 years, I would assume somewhere down the line some puppy from some litter has had some issue. Even if it was 15 years ago that it happened. I want my breeder to tell me this, and tell me what was done to prevent it from happening in the future.

What is your health guarantee?
-Mine is that you need to take your puppy to the vet with 72 hours of pick to verify that your puppy is healthy and that your vet agrees with my vet’s initial visit. After that I do not have a guarantee, I cannot foresee what may happen to the puppy in the future. As you know with boxers there is heart & hip issues as well as they are prone to cancer. I have never had a dog come back due to heart or hip issues and I have been breeding for 15 years. Cancer has come up before, but generally not until old age sets in. I cannot guarantee that just because the parents of the puppy are healthy that your puppy will live a long and healthy life. That’s just something I have adopted over the years in dealing with other boxer breeders.

Red flag. 72 hours is the kind of guarantee you get when you buy a hamster from Petsmart. She should give -at least- a 1 year guarantee, and even that I find is too short. One of my dogs came with only a 1 year guarantee, and she was diagnosed with luxating patellas and legg-perthes disease just days shy of that 1 year. IMO it's just not enough time to discover problems. When a breeder gives you a long health guarantee, that tells me that they are confident that their puppies are healthy as can be. A short guarantee kind of covers their butts because it's much more likely that a health problem won't be found in that timeframe. A lifetime guarantee is the BEST, but unfortunately rare.

Are the puppies kept in the house or kennel?
-In our garage, which is right off the kitchen so we can play with them as much as we can.

Again, not a good sign. All puppies should be raised in the home. It's vital for socialization--you want your puppy to be used to regular household activities, like the vacuum running, dishwasher, clanging of pots, etc. Unless her garage is set up in some amazing way that I can't even imagine, it just sounds like a sad place for a puppy to be raised.

I also would have asked if she will take a dog back if, at any time during it's life, you are no longer able to care for it. I get the feeling that she has the best intentions (I don't think she would have answered your questions if she didn't care about her dogs), but she's misinformed. It's very possible that her dogs are fine... but I don't think I'd want to get a dog from her.

[ehayes21]

Originally Posted by OurFirstPup

You all bring very good points, all of which I've considered myself. I just dont know what to do until I talk to their vet and see them in person. I dont want to drive for three hours just to satisfy my curiosity, I would rather do it once, when the puppies had their vet check and when its ready to be picked up. If what the vet says does not sit well with me and if I don't like the conditions in her house, then I'll just leave empty handed. I'd much rather wait than put myself through the heartache with a poorly bred puppy.

I wouldn't even bother seeing the litter until you get copies of the health clearances on the parents in your hands. Which I doubt you'll get, this breeder screams BYB to me.

[Barron's mom]

I thought the same: this screams BYB!

I purchased Barron from a BYB before I even knew what a BYB was. I know better now. Barron's breeder (if you could call her that) bred boxers and two other breeds. I later found out after I got Barron's AKC papers that she was not listed as Barron's breeder. I breeder in Pennsylvania was listed. I found her through her advertisement in the newspaper!

One thing I did not like about this breeders answers (besides the health testing and guarantee answer) is that she socializes her puppies in the garage. Why not the house? I just got the sense that the puppies are kept isolated from the family.

I researched breeders before I picked out Zeus. I researched the pedigree of both parents and was impressed. She also showed proof of health testing. I met Zeus when he was outside playing with his mom, aunt and another boxer.

[BxrMommieNAZ]

I agree with everyone else that it screams BYB. Also one thing nobody brought up, in there she says something about "if you're going to spay it won't be a problem" well, if the puppy is being adopted out as a family pet only and not of breeding and show quality then the breeder typically REQUIRES you to spay the pup between 6 and 12 months of age and you sign a contract stating you will and must then provide proof to the breeder once it is done. My boy was pet only and I signed such a contract and yes I had to scan in and e-mail proof that he was neutered.

A reputable breeder typically gives AT LEAST a 2 year health guarantee sometimes even 3.

You should also get paperwork on hip testing, heart testing, thyroid testing, and others. She shouldn't simply be stating that the dogs are healthy that was her time to say oh yes I have paperwork on blah blah blah test attached to this e-mail or let me know and I can mail it to you or whatever the case is. She did not it was simply the longevity. And her state of at 11 the one had trouble getting around, well that says to me that he probably had severe arthritis, DM, hip displasia, or something along those lines, all of which are genetic. An 11 year old, where as they are getting up there in age, doesn't have trouble getting around unless there is a REASON. Something like hip displasia can be lived with for a long time before it forces you to put them down. My girl's had knee and hip problems for a good 3-4 years now hangs in there, but yes eventually we will probably have to put her down for it.

I would walk, no RUN, no SPRINT away from these people. IMO don't even bother going to see them. Who cares what their house looks like or the puppies look like (sometimes you can tell BYB puppies, but many times you cannot until they start getting older). I would send her another e-mail ask if she has done hip testing, heart holster testing, and thyroid testing and if she has the paperwork to prove this. If she hasn't done these at the very very minimum then that is your cue to RUN in the opposite direction regardless of what her vet says, the puppies look like, or the house looks like.

And if she doesn't do these tests, then yes she IS doing this for profit as at $400 each and the only thing these pups are getting done is one set of shots she's making a GOOD chunk of cash...AT LEAST $1,000 more than likely and a good chance more than that.

[DiverDiva]

Originally Posted by BxrMommieNAZ

I agree with everyone else that it screams BYB. ...I would walk, no RUN, no SPRINT away from these people. IMO don't even bother going to see them. Who cares what their house looks like or the puppies look like (sometimes you can tell BYB puppies, but many times you cannot until they start getting older). I would send her another e-mail ask if she has done hip testing, heart holster testing, and thyroid testing and if she has the paperwork to prove this. If she hasn't done these at the very very minimum then that is your cue to RUN in the opposite direction regardless of what her vet says, the puppies look like, or the house looks like...

To the original poster:
You have posted in the "Choosing A Puppy" subforum. I think you may want to step back and visit (or revisit) the "Choosing A Breeder" subforum http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/choosing-breeder/ and read through the 'stickies' threads at the top, at least the 'Backyard breeding - the consequences' and the 'Health tests your breeder should do' threads. I believe if you do that, you will understand why it has been suggested you SPRINT away from this breeder.

[ikonxone]

Run away. Good breeders do not need to advertise. We got nixxon a week ago and we had to fill out questioneers from the breeder to even be considered to get a pup. He even came to our house and check out our yard etc. Nixxon breeder is great, price wasnt a problem for us, we just wanted a healthy boxer with papers to prove it. He even calls me to check up on Nixxon.

[BigDies]

Not going to sound like a broken record here, but I did want to mention that it's probably best that you DO NOT go see the puppies. If you get there and the situation is bad then your "rescuing instinct" may kick in and you end up with one (I know mine would!) And if you get there and everything *looks* good but you still don't have any health test results then you may end up buying because things *look* respectable, but really aren't.


Good luck.