Breeder choice - need help in nj

[pokernerd]

I just recently lost my 11 year old Bandit. He was a fantastic dog & was relatively healthy most of his life. I bought him from a pet store (before I knew any better). Anyway, I am certainly not going that route again & I also want to stay away from BYB's. I am mainly concerned with just getting a quality healthy dog. I don't care about show quality, etc. I have looked quite a bit online for breeder links, but have found it quite difficult to sift through all of the people calling themselves "breeders." I submitted an inquiry to my local boxer club & only got 1 response from a breeder who is trying to sell me a boxer @ $1800 (He tried to tell me that He was giving me a "break" because the buyers fell through & He just wants a good home for the pup who would normally run $2800-$3200) On top of this He doesn't test for thyroid & hip because He claims that it is a waste of time. I am certainly not dealing with him since the whole deal sounds sketchy. I spoke to another breeder who wanted $2,200 for their pups but that breeder specialized in champion show dogs & I don't really care about that...I just want a great family pet. I'm a bit at a loss.

Does anyone out there know of a good breeder in the DE, NJ, PA or MD area that I should contact, possibly with available pups or pups on the way? If anyone can help or put me in touch with someone that can I would greatly appreciate it. I'm open to all ideas or suggestions.

[Caney Creek]

We cannot give names of breeders here on the site. That would be like advertising for them.

I do think you're right in not going with that first one that e-mailed you though -- charging $1800 for a pet puppy (and especially the part where it was originally going to cost $2800) is absolutely absurd, ESPECIALLY if this "breeder" thinks that screening for genetic conditions is a "waste."

About the other breeder that's charging $2200 -- that sounds a bit sketchy too. Even show breeders (which, all reputable breeders will show dogs) have pet quality puppies which cost much less than show quality pups. I have come across plenty of great breeders who have pet quality puppies for $800-$1000, and white puppies for even less than that.

I would suggest you look up show schedules in your area, and attend a boxer show. That's a great way to meet and speak to reputable show breeders -- if none of them have puppies available at the time, they're bound to know of someone who does or will soon.

[LILYLARUE]

If you are determined not to make the wrong decision again on finding a puppy, why not start with the local rescues? They will receive in pregnant dogs and some already with litters. This not only gives an already good dog a new life and will avoid any "sponsoring" of those "not for the betterment of the breed" breeders. And many of those rescues are full of GREAT family pets, but left behind due to this recent economy.

If no puppies are available, then a reputable breeder would be my next choice. Going to a show is a great idea to meet owners and breeders. You can't get any better of info than getting it right from the horse's mouth! Or dog in this case.

[pokernerd]

Well I contacted my local Boxer club & spoke to the main contact (who is a breeder in NJ). I told her about my experience with the breeder (from her club) that was trying to sell me a Boxer for $1800 (@ a discount) but didn't test thyroid & hip. I mentioned that I thought his price was a little steep & she informed me that it was quite reasonable & that most good Boxers go for $1800 -$2500 in this area. She explained that the costs of testing are so much that often the breeders are into the pups for about $1k a piece just to cover costs. In the meantime I talked to another breeder I found on the AKC website who wants $800 but does not do all of the testing either. She claimed that her dogs were all healthy & she only cross bread hr own dogs. Her price was $800 for a pup & she claims to have 15 years experience. All of her dogs are family pets & live inside her home with her. She also stated that all the parents & grandparents of her current litter lived on the premise with her. Furthermore she claims to only breed the females a maximum of 3 times & never closer than 1 year apart between litters. She stated that she lost some of her older dogs recently (11-13 yrs old). It all sounded good but ofcourse the lack of thorough testing bothered me. She actually made some food points about some breeders of show dogs in the fact that often they may stud out their males to other kennels &/or visa-versa & that she would only trust her pups to the gentics of the digs she raised & knew to be healthy. She also claimed that she has never had a white boxer in her litter which she attributed to her crossbreeding. She claims that many breeders have a higher rate of white boxer births because they are often breed to closely to preserve their "champion" bloodline...(I don't know if that's even true)!) I'm still at a loss. I have sent emails to many "reputable" breeders but have had few replies. Right now I feel like my only options are pay $2k for a "good dog" after finding a breeder who will actually get back to me & put me on a list or take a chance with a breeder who claims to be responsible but doesn't necessarily go through all of the expensive testings. Any input would be appreciated.

[gmacleod]

Hmm. There are a number of red flags raised by what you've written above, not least of which is this:

Originally Posted by pokernerd

She also claimed that she has never had a white boxer in her litter which she attributed to her crossbreeding. She claims that many breeders have a higher rate of white boxer births because they are often breed to closely to preserve their "champion" bloodline

Since you write that this person only breeds within their own lines, it seems counterintuitive for them to be condemning others for close breeding practices And it's a straight contradiction with the bit about standing males at stud (which, btw, is a good thing - if people didn't do that, then the best and healthiest males would not be available for use, and you'd end with a load of very inbred animals. Much as it suggests this person's dogs would be).

In addition, white boxers do NOT result from inbreeding, close breeding, line breeding or anything of the sort. 25%-ish of boxers born in the US are white, due to the breeding of dogs with flash. The only way someone avoids having white puppies born is by NOT mating two flashy dogs together. Possibly that is exactly what this person does. But IF its the case, I'd start running now because they clearly haven't even the most basic grasp of genetics if they think its because they don't outcross with anyone else's dogs

I guess the other things you need to consider are that (a) if you want a boxer that really looks like a boxer, and like the one you had pictured, you will get that from a breeder who shows their dogs. NOT from someone who doesn't show, and does their best to avoid the sorts of breeding practices that produce show-quality dogs (show quality meaning dogs that conform closely to the breed standard); and (b) if you want a healthy dog that's not going to cost you thousands in veterinary expenses, your best chance (not a guarantee, but the lowest risk) is buying from someone who screens their breeding stock - not someone who pretends that their dogs are magically unaffected by any normal genetics, but doesn't bother to check if their claims are actually accurate.

I can agree that the prices you mention seem rather steep (though you might explore the idea of taking a white puppy - which should only be sold for an amount roughly equal to the costs of veterinary fees - or an older pup that has been retained by the breeder for showing, but not finally lived up to show expectations), but I would not be racing to buy from an irresponsible and unknowledgable breeder just to save $1000 in outlay. You'd lose that sum many times over if the pup you buy turns out to have hip dysplasia or a heart problem that are common to this breed. The simple fact of the matter is that these things ARE common. So common that anyone who's been in the business of breeding for 15 years and claims to have lines that are magically free of any of the afflictions that are etched in boxer genes is either lying, hiding their head in the sand or possibly just never keeps in touch with puppy buyers and doesn't actually know the health status of the dogs they've produced.

One other thing you might consider is looking elsewhere in the country for a puppy. Prices vary considerably by region, so if you're prepared to travel a little bit, you might well be able to find a more reasonable price. Good luck with your search

[Draymia]

As usual, gmacleod is right on...

Sadly, the AKC site that has puppies advertised is open to anyone who wants to pay and has registered a litter. I've checked these ads in my area and 90% are bybs. AKC is doing a disservice by letting people think these advertisers are good breeders.

I also think it might be a good idea for you to look out of your area. I do understand that the prices you listed are common for your area. Although I live on the other side of the country pet puppies around here, go for about $1000. except in the Seattle/Portland area where $1500. is common. If you are willing to drive, try expanding your search.

[Jim J]

I live in NJ myself and just purchased a puppy for $600 last Monday. I went to near-by PA and bought one from a BYB / puppy mill unknowing (they tend not to advertise that). The dogs were kept in small pens but they were well maintained and the dogs were helthy, not justifing there treatment or pupy mills. When we saw the puppys we fell in love with them and are very happy with our healthy AKC puppy Dexter. Now the reason why I went to PA is excatly what you were saying to begin with, boxer puppys in this area are outragious in price. Bottom line: We wanted a boxer puppy, and to get one in NJ was out of reach $ wise, so we went with this option.

[ehayes21]

Originally Posted by Jim J

I live in NJ myself and just purchased a puppy for $600 last Monday. I went to near-by PA and bought one from a BYB / puppy mill unknowing (they tend not to advertise that). The dogs were kept in small pens but they were well maintained and the dogs were helthy, not justifing there treatment or pupy mills. When we saw the puppys we fell in love with them and are very happy with our healthy AKC puppy Dexter. Now the reason why I went to PA is excatly what you were saying to begin with, boxer puppys in this area are outragious in price. Bottom line: We wanted a boxer puppy, and to get one in NJ was out of reach $ wise, so we went with this option.

And you just supported something that is damaging the breed as a whole and the reason millions of dogs die in shelters every year in the US. Do NOT support puppymills and backyard breeders. When you do you contribute in this horrible practice.
I hope your puppy grows up happy and healthy, but please don't come on here and promote buying from these types of places. The reason a well bred puppy cost so much is that a LOT goes into the health testing - a couple hundred dollars more to ensure your dog doesn't cost you thousands down the line is worth it to me.
You should read this thread.
Backyard breeding - the consequences

[kayboxer]

Originally Posted by ehayes21

And you just supported something that is damaging the breed as a whole and the reason millions of dogs die in shelters every year in the US. Do NOT support puppymills and backyard breeders. When you do you contribute in this horrible practice.
I hope your puppy grows up happy and healthy, but please don't come on here and promote buying from these types of places. The reason a well bred puppy cost so much is that a LOT goes into the health testing - a couple hundred dollars more to ensure your dog doesn't cost you thousands down the line is worth it to me.
You should read this thread.
Backyard breeding - the consequences

Totally agree! It is one thing if you did so unknowingly and learned a lesson, but to say you did it to save money is totally different.

[Jim J]

I understand you wanting to preserve the breed and all that, but hey... Remainder deleted by moderator.

Moderator Note: I find it difficult to believe that anyone who joins a community where the rules clearly state that we do not allow irresponsible breeding practices to be promoted - and does it anyway - is not a troll (for which we have zero tolerance). You have the benefit of the doubt for the moment. That is, it is your post only that is deleted not your account. If you want to promote irresponsible breeding practices, there are plenty of other boards better suited - but it will not be tolerated on this site.