To breed or not to breed

swooley · #1 4th February 2006, 05:15 PM

We originally wanted 1 boxer. The mother of the litter sat on the puppy that we had originally selected and broke his front leg. The breeder suggested that we take another pup from the litter. We ended up taking Wyatt, a flashy fawn, and the original pup Doc, flashy brindle. Yes, his leg was broken but we were looking for companion dogs not show dogs. The breeder gave Doc to us free of charge but she wanted the rights of his first breeding.

Here is the issue. Wyatt has been a medical nightmare. He has had generalized Dmange, a surface tumor removed from his ear and now he has been diagnosed with pyloric stenosis. He is just over a year old. The breeder is still wanting to breed the sibling. I'm having a problem, in good concience, breeding Doc. While he has appearred healthy so far, I feel that he shouldn't be bred because we don't know if Wyatt's problems are hereditary. I do not want any more puppies being out there and other owners having to live with the chaos that we have had to endur and still endurring over the last year. Any advise?

Louise501 · #2 4th February 2006, 05:29 PM

I don't know anything about breeding as I do not intend doing so but if you already know of a problem my advise would be no, don't breed. Surely the parents of your puppies should have had all the health checks too if you are considering breeding.

BoxerBubbles · #3 4th February 2006, 06:22 PM

did you have to sign something saying YES you would breed him?
i definitely would NOT do it.

**gmacleod** · #4 4th February 2006, 07:08 PM

Get them both neutered straight away. That removes the possibility.

There is absolutely no question that the pup who had generalised demodex must *never* be bred from. The defective immune system that allows demodex to develop into generalised form is hereditary. And it isn't just demodectic mange that a dog with a defective immune system is vulnerable to. Allowing that to be passed on to future generations would be irresponsible in the extreme. So go with your gut there - get that pup neutered immediately.

As for Doc... Frankly, I wouldn't even consider breeding from him either. Do you really want to invest the thousands of dollars that *need* to be invested in determining whether or not he is breeding potential just so someone else can use his sperm? Why prostitute your dog for someone else's benefit? But if you do decide to do that, here are some of the health screening tests you're going to have to have done to ensure that he's not going to pass on serious diseases to any offspring: www.boxerworld.com/health_testing It is impossible to responsibly breed a boxer without having screened for those diseases - they're very common, and they're genetically inherited.

swooley · #5 5th February 2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmacleod

Get them both neutered straight away. That removes the possibility.

Wyatt was neutered as soon as he recovered from the demodex. Our intention as never to breed him since there are just too many dogs in need of homes now. But the breeder still wanted to go forward with breeding Doc, even though several of the puppies from her litter of 12 contracted the demodex.

But we did sign a breed agreement with the breeder for Doc. I just cannot believe that the breeder still wants to breed him after all of the problems that may be related to him. But agreement or not, I do think that I will go with my gut and have him neutered. It is MY name that is on the registry for Doc so it will be MY name that will be linked to future litters. And no (given all of the problems with his sibling), I am not willing to plunk down thousands of dollars for health checks although he is a fine specimen of the breed.

Zannie · #6 5th February 2006, 12:29 PM

i would find a vet that would be willing to say in court if nesasary that the dog could not be bred because of health reasons and have him neutered.....

ann

vitalsignusa · #7 6th February 2006, 08:32 PM

I agree w/gm. There's something wrong with this picture. You said several of the 12 came down with this? That's several more owners going through the same thing, several more puppies who had to suffer. Go to the vet, get a statement as to the risks of breeding. Take that right out of the equation and then get your dog fixed. Any reputable breeder will understand that you are not only protecting your reputation but theirs as well.

carrie3797 · #8 6th February 2006, 09:12 PM

Follow Your Gut! Get That Boy Neutered!

Dempseysmama · #9 6th February 2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zannie

i would find a vet that would be willing to say in court if nesasary that the dog could not be bred because of health reasons and have him neutered.....

ann

This sounds like wise advice.

xenaprincess · #10 7th February 2006, 07:10 AM

I don't know this for sure, but is it legal for a breeder to obligate you to a breeding contract knowing that your male has a defective immune system?? I wouldn't think so, and because of Docs demodex, I think that would make the contract void? How irresponsible is this breeder???

I would neuter Doc immediately and solve the whole thing that way. How are you going to feel if you allow him to breed knowing that he is passing on his deficiency to the pups? Do the wise thing.

Good luck to you.

JulieM · #11 7th February 2006, 10:06 AM

Be careful - if you neuter Doc, you're going to be in breach of contract and there can be (sometimes expensive) legal consequences of that. I agree that he shouldn't be bred, but you don't want a legal battle and perhaps being made to pay restitution for the puppies he could have sired.

Talk to the vet, get a statement that he is unsuitable for breeding, and present that to the breeder. Tell them you're not comfortable with breeding him because of his brother's problems and the fact that several puppies in the litter came down with generalized mange (it was generalized for all of them, wasn't it?). Pyloric stenosis is thought to have a genetic component, as well, which is another argument against breeding him.

Does the contract discuss health for breeding at all?

swooley · #12 7th February 2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulieM

Does the contract discuss health for breeding at all?

Unfortunately, the contract says not much more than the breeder gets the first pick. And although, there were 4 other puppies with generalized demodex and 3 that were not generalised (that I know of), the breeder is telling me that the gene came from the sire and she only owns the bitch so the issue is null.

Regardless, I am not comfortable breeding either boy because of Wyatt's health problems. And if legalities will not allow me to neuter him, then all bets are off when it comes to breeding because all health issues will be disclosed to ALL prospects. That has been enough to scare off two potential breeders. I am a firm believer that if you plan on breeding, you do so with the intention to better the breed.