White boxer breedings

[JulieM]

I ended up at the DCA site anyway, and they actually state that only bilaterally hearing Dals should be bred. (So that negates my earlier comment!) Dr. Strains research has shown that there would be fewer deaf Dals breeding bi x bi than there would be breeding bi x uni.

Interestingly, though, the deafness statistics in Dals is much lower than Matt's projections for Boxers. 22% of Dals are unilaterally deaf, 8% bilaterally deaf, for a total of 30% of all Dalmatians deaf.

Also, Matt, you wrote,

That people would make 44.08 percent of all boxers deaf, 41.34% of them white.

By which I think you mean that 41.34% of all Boxers are both deaf and white - not that 41.34% of the deaf Boxers are white, correct?

[pep0987]

No, we have not done the Baers tests, because I did not know about it. We have tested Bailey, because we want to know what we might have to deal with. Basically the reason I posted this was to find out why white boxers are not part of the standard.

[BriaLeigh]

I had read somewhere... lots of reasons

1. something about them being police dogs and seen at night...
2. the first few boxers being white, but then bred to be colored.. and that was the new accepted standard
3. worries of health problems

But I see your point... if a perfectly healthy dog, that meets all the qualifications except his color.. why should he not be shown. After all, he can be AKC registered. I have no desire to put my dog in the show ring, but possibly agility and obedience, which we are allowed to do. Doesnt make any sense to me. They say whites shouldnt be bred because it isnt improving the breed... which is fine if they can back it up. But why should the good ones be shoved out? just like the natural ears??? Im leaving Zander's natural.. and people give me a hard time. its my preference. it should be your preference to show a white dog if he is qualified

[JulieM]

A white Boxer cannot be "qualified" because it is disqualified per the breed standard. Uncropped ears are a deviation but not a disqualification.

The first few Boxers were not white, they were colored, then the English Bulldog was introduced to the breed and that is when we got the white markings. It is well-known and -accepted that white Boxers have a higher incidence of genetic deafness than colored Boxers.

[BriaLeigh]

This is getting out of hand. Why is everybody trying to play god anyway? white dogs are born, big deal. For all those people that kill them... they'll get theirs. and for not being allowed to show them... that will undoubtedly change some day. and there is nobody speaking up and saying.. I WAS THERE when the first boxers appearred obviously to say YES .. iT WAS THIS COLOR. So why do we argue?

[BriaLeigh]

Originally Posted by JulieM

A white Boxer cannot be "qualified" because it is disqualified per the breed standard. Uncropped ears are a deviation but not a disqualification.

The first few Boxers were not white, they were colored, then the English Bulldog was introduced to the breed and that is when we got the white markings. It is well-known and -accepted that white Boxers have a higher incidence of genetic deafness than colored Boxers.

WERE YOU THERE? Was anybody you know? ... how do you know?

[JulieM]

for not being allowed to show them... that will undoubtedly change some day

I very much doubt that. Certianly never in my lifetime, nor I suspect yours.

WERE YOU THERE? Was anybody you know? ... how do you know?

I was not there, but I can read. There are many books written by people who were there, and people who were taught by people who were there, which support my statements. Have you read them? Are you saying that they lied?

You might want to do a search here for "Boxer history" - there have been a ton of threads and links that go into more detail on the topic.

[BriaLeigh]

"Around the year of 1830 it is believed that an early form of the English Bulldog was crossed with the Brabanter Bullenbeisser and thus the Boxer breed was born. The crossed dogs were white in color, much like the white Boxers today that are banned from confirmation shows and not accepted as a proper color. By 1895 the Boxer Klub was formally organized and a breed standard was described to help define what the Boxer should look like. In the majority of pictures from this eras of the breed the Boxer is shown white in color. In 1925 the white Boxer was no longer accepted as a proper color for the breed. Most believe the reasoning for this change is that if the Boxer was to be used for police work it would need to be of a darker color as to not be seen at night."

[JulieM]

Thank you, you've completely proven my point. "Around the year of 1830 it is believed that an early form of the English Bulldog was crossed with the Brabanter Bullenbeisser and thus the Boxer breed was born. The crossed dogs were white in color." The crossed dogs had white color from the English Bulldogs. Here's another quote for you, this one from a noted breed expert, John Wagner:

The literature and paintings previous to 1830 indicate that all Bullenbeisser up to that time were fawn or brindle with black masks. There is never any mention of white. About this time there came a great influx of English dogs to Germany including the English Bulldog. His entry into the country quickly followed by numerous crosses with the Bullenbeisser resulted in an eventual similarity of type that made it very difficult to distinguish where any degree of Bulldog blood was present except that white color began to appear in the Boxers.

[BriaLeigh]

But is it not true that the "boxer" was not a "boxer" untill the Brabanter Bullenbeisser was crossed with an english bulldog... creating the white dog. So it wasnt a boxer when it was the Bullenbeisser which wasnt white. which was my point.. the first "boxer" being white... with the preceeding dog being colored...