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  #1  
Old 22nd January 2002, 02:00 PM
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Question American VS German

Hi. I am new to this site. I have an 8 1/2 month old, 60 lb. male boxer named Brick. He is an absolute joy (when he isn't eating my shoes!!). My question is, someone asked my husband the other day if we had a German boxer or an American. We had never heard of this. They said we had a German one when he answered some of their questions. Does anyone know if this is true and what the difference is? Thank you.
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  #2  
Old 22nd January 2002, 02:21 PM
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Hi! I can't really tell you the difference since I'm no expert but I did meet someone who said their boxers were German. All I can say is Loke was taller and skinny compared to his 2 which were short and very built and broad. I don't know anything else other than that so I look forward to more knowledgable responses to your question. Welcome to the board!

 
  #3  
Old 22nd January 2002, 11:19 PM
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Cubby's response is about exactly right It can be argued that "German" Boxers are more stout and bulky, but really there are different styles of dogs in both countries and to assume that one style is from a certain country is unwise at best.

If your dog is from North American lines, you could call him a "North American Boxer." If your dog is from German lines, you could call him a "German Boxer" (although I personally would prefer if you called him a Boxer from NA or German lines - unless he was born in Germany, in which case he'd be a citizen )

 
  #4  
Old 30th January 2002, 04:15 AM
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Hi, when I got Rocky, the breeder said that he breed his german bitch with an american dog. I asked him what the difference was and he said that the main difference was that the american boxer has a longer nose and the german's nose is more pushed up.
Hope that helps.

 
  #5  
Old 28th February 2002, 04:43 PM
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I ran across this in my research awhile back and saved it in my favorites.

Article
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  #6  
Old 28th February 2002, 06:41 PM
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Christina,

I can understand why that article may have offended you, it is human nature to defend ones position as you have, because it would be unbearable to find that ones believes are indeed fallible. It is much easier for me to objectively read and process information, wade through the rubbish and logically decipher well-made points because I have not committed myself to a certain preconceived context or opinion. I am also not emotionally or financially strapped to a certain bias and therefore have no need to place a value judgment one way or the other.

I have posted this link for educational purposes only; take what you can from the article, which is indeed a copy written piece of work by Carolina Nadal Fuentes. Coincidentally this is not her “personal web page” but undoubtedly her “thoughts and ideas,” of which I cannot substantiate the research validity pro or con. I also have absolutely no desire nor the time to research and dissect her writings.

I will say there are some pretty impressive dogs in gallery #5 and I agree whole-heartedly with your last comment!


Have a great evening!
Dan

 
  #7  
Old 28th February 2002, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
I can understand why that article may have offended you, it is human nature to defend ones position as you have, because it would be unbearable to find that ones believes are indeed fallible. It is much easier for me to objectively read and process information, wade through the rubbish and logically decipher well-made points because I have not committed myself to a certain preconceived context or opinion. I am also not emotionally or financially strapped to a certain bias and therefore have no need to place a value judgment one way or the other.
Dan, be careful here. This is extremely close to being inflammatory and argumentative (and if I were in a less mellow mood it would probably seem over the line to me).

Quote:
take what you can from the article, which is indeed a copy written piece of work by Carolina Nadal Fuentes.
Not sure what copyright has to do with it; this post of mine is copyrighted - that doesn't make it gospel.

Quote:
Coincidentally this is not her “personal web page” but undoubtedly her “thoughts and ideas,”
Undoubtedly. It is, though, the personal web page of a Boxer breeder who apparently agrees with this Carolina (she who has been breeding her "magnificent Boxers" for 10 years and has yet to finish a Champion, by the way). It is also, as Christina noted, an opinion, nothing more. I would perhaps take it more seriously if Carolina mentioned when and where she had been in America to see these "remarkably defected" Boxers, or if her own Boxers came closer to meeting the breed standard in the areas where she is criticizing American Boxers. As it is, I find it mostly the same old chestnut that is continually tossed about by those who are trying to create a distinction between American and German (or European or Continental) Boxers, instead of striving to breed dogs that are ideal specimens of the breed - whatever standard you happen to follow.

 
  #8  
Old 1st March 2002, 01:32 AM
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Right on Christina, I didn't feel your post was directed towards me and in turn my response wasn't meant to reflect that.

Sorry Julie, if you have extrapolated "inflammatory and argumentative" from my post, you have clearly missed the point.

Last edited by DMB; 1st March 2002 at 01:45 AM.

 
  #9  
Old 1st March 2002, 06:03 AM
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The owner of the website is actually Sasha who is a friend of mine

The article is by, as Dan said, Carolina Nadal Fuentes.

2 different people.

Credits for the article are to be seen under the article making it clear that it has been used on the site but not written by the site owner so I would be careful in my criticism.

And for what it's worth, I agree with both DMB and the article and see nothing at all inflammatory in DMBs post.

In fact I like his style, a lot like mine :-)

Posted in response to report from board member

"step outside the square, and have a look from the outside"

MC
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  #10  
Old 1st March 2002, 10:31 AM
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I'm curious to know, since it's been brought up here again, how many people who 'prefer' the 'european boxer' can cite, what the main differences are in the written breed standards between FCI and AKC.

I would like to point out that the FCI has accepted the German Boxer Klub. It is an INTERNATIONAL standard, not just European.

I've read both written standards, and I'm not sure I can find much difference, so if someone wants to educate me, please start there.

I've also read the article, and seen this website. My dog has a relative pictured there, so I think its neat to see archived pictures. I've read the article you have referenced here. I've also noticed the whole muzzle size issue, which really confuses me.

FCI #144 Muzzle:
"The muzzle is powerfully develoved in three dimensional volume, neither pointed or narrow, short or shallow."

When I compare that to the Picture of the Boxer at the bottom of the page, I'm not sure how what I see reperesents the FCI standard, but hard to tell from a picture, and I'm not a judge. But since its been brought up, an explanation would help me figure it out.

Do I wish more breeders put suffix titles on Boxers? Of course, and I've never made it a secret. Christina as an example, has CGC/TT on her Interantional Champion, Booker T, and passes all health tests that I know to check into. This, to me, indicates that it's not conformation only. Considering what goes into TT, a dog with weak nerves will never cut it.

The article referenced here doesn't offend me personally, because it's an opinion. EuroBoxer is a neat site in general. So is the USA-Box and other sites that discuss working titles. But for me, it's pretty hard to look at a two dimonsional picture of a Boxer from any country and discuss its points. That's why judges put their hands on a dog and don't award points based on photos.
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  #11  
Old 1st March 2002, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
And for what it's worth, I agree with both DMB and the article and see nothing at all inflammatory in DMBs post.
You know, Matt, somehow I knew you would say that!


Quote:
In fact I like his style, a lot like mine :-)
Yes, I agree completely with that!!

Again, I only said it was close to being inflammatory and obviously I am not the only one who feels that way. Since Dan has clarified that it was not his intent, I feel no need to continue discussing it (will wonders never cease?)

Renee, when you find the substantial differences between the written words of the standards, let me know. Matt and I went around and around about it quite some time ago on the forums, if you care to search. I'm sure that we both came out of the discussion convinced we were right

 
  #12  
Old 4th March 2002, 08:31 AM
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Just to put in my own thought.

I have been to Germany to visit a friend who owns a few Boxers. They all look like the standard Boxer. As I kept looking for other boxers they all looked like the standard Boxer.

What AKC considers STANDARD! I copied it from there web site!
The blunt muzzle is 1/3 the length of the head from the occiput to the tip of the nose, and 2/3 the width of the skull. The head should be clean, not showing deep wrinkles (wet). Wrinkles typically appear upon the forehead when ears are erect, and folds are always present from the lower edge of the stop running downward on both sides of the muzzle. Expression--Intelligent and alert. Eyes--Dark brown in color, not too small, too protruding or too deep-set.

Skull - The top of the skull is slightly arched, not rounded, flat nor noticeably broad, with the occiput not overly pronounced. The forehead shows a slight indentation between the eyes and forms a distinct stop with the topline of the muzzle. The cheeks should be relatively flat and not bulge (cheekiness), maintaining the clean lines of the skull and should taper into the muzzle in a slight, graceful curve. Muzzle--The muzzle, proportionately developed in length, width and depth, has a shape influenced first through the formation of both jawbones, second through the placement of the teeth, and third through the texture of the lips. The top of the muzzle should not slant down (downfaced), nor should it be concave (dishfaced); however, the tip of the nose should lie slightly higher than the root of the muzzle.

The nose should be broad and black.
The upper jaw is broad where attached to the skull and maintains this breadth except for a very slight tapering to the front. The lips, which complete the formation of the muzzle, should meet evenly in front. The upper lip is thick and padded, filling out the frontal space created by the projection of the lower jaw, and laterally is supported by the canines of the lower jaw. Therefore, these canines must stand far apart and be of good length so that the front surface of the muzzle is broad and squarish and, when viewed from the side, shows moderate layback. The chin should be perceptible from the side as well as from the front. Bite--The Boxer bite is undershot; the lower jaw protrudes beyond the upper and curves slightly upward. The incisor teeth of the lower jaw are in a straight line, with the canines preferably up front in the same line to give the jaw the greatest possible width. The upper line of incisors is slightly convex with the corner upper incisors fitting snugly back of the lower canine teeth on each side. Faults-- Skull too broad. Cheekiness. Wrinkling too deep (wet) or lacking (dry). Excessive flews. Muzzle too light for skull. Too pointed a bite (snipy), too undershot, teeth or tongue showing when mouth closed. Eyes noticeably lighter than ground color of coat.


In Germany they follow the stardard very closly and are pretty stricked about it, while in America some people do not follow the standard very closely and that's how we have these boxers who don't look anything like the standard and that is how we got the American Boxer.
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