Boxer colours

[boxerkids]

Why were white and black written out of the Boxer Standard as being acceptable colours for Boxers? Does anyone really know?

Is a lazy eye common in boxers? Does anyone else have a boxer with this problem?



Loving parents of Jazzy :Flashy brindle girl boxer clown
natural ears, docked tail

[JulieM]

White was considered an unacceptable color when Boxers were used as war dogs. White dogs were highly visible at night - certainly undesirable! - and so were not even given food rations.

Black was eliminated because it is not "natural" to the breed, the black coloring came from the breeding of a Bulldog with a Schnauzer.

I don't know about a lazy eye, sorry!

[boxerkids]

I have read that 20% of all Boxers are born white. If this is true and white was written out of the standard due to war time Boxers being too visible wouldn't it be just as easy to write white back into the standard. To me a Boxer is a Boxer regardless of colour. Shouldn't the Boxer standard, boxer breeders and owners be concerned about improving the breed and breeding with quality dogs regardless of colour (white)?

I can understand some colours being undesirable due to a higher prevalence of genetic disorders, but not due to the fact that they were too visible in wartime.

[JulieM]

You've hit the nail on the head, the problem is the "old-time" breeders who for whatever reason (I'm assuming to assuage their guilt about killing white pups at birth) have come up with the idea that white Boxers are more prone to diseases than their colored littermates. This has yet to be proven, scientifically or anecdotally (except of course for deafness, which has not been proven specifically for Boxers but the correlation is likely correct), but the myth remains.

The tide is changing. More and more breeders are allowing white pups to live, an ABC proposal to allow limited registration of whites almost got a 50% vote - but the change will be slow. Too many "respected" breeders still oppose white Boxers, and until they either change their minds or retire, they will continue to influence those newer to the breed with their misconceptions.

[boxerkids]

Is there anything that we can do to correct this misconception. I know the breeder that we brought Jasmine off does not take the white pups out of the bag when they are born.

[JulieM]

Is there anything that we can do to correct this misconception. I know the breeder that we brought Jasmine off does not take the white pups out of the bag when they are born.

First, don't buy from breeders like this....(sorry, but that's how I feel - kind of like the pet store thing). (BTW, does she stop the dam from removing the sac? If the dam does not try to do it herself, there's a whole other problem....)

Second, get your white Boxers out there in the public eye. Get CGC's on them. Train and compete with them in Agility and Obedience (this year's High In Trial for Agility at the National was a white Boxer name, appropriately, Justice ) - it sends a message. Join your local Boxer Club and work from within to change the system. (Just a note, though - if you have bred or registered a white Boxer, you will not be able to join a club, as it is against the Code of Ethics. ILP numbers are OK.)

I don't advocate becoming a white Boxer lobbyist , because I think subtlety will work much better in this situation than in-your-face-ness. But if you are out there with your whites competing and doing well and proving that they *are* Boxers, regardless of their marking pattern, people will slowly get used to the idea....but again, it will take time.

[boxerkids]

thanks Julie I understand what you mean. However since my last question I now have a new concern. I have just been exposed to the dumb boxer attitude. I was told by a committee member of my obedience club to not be disappointed if my boxer never passed an obedience trial, after all she is a boxer!!!!!!!!! I think people who have this attitude need to learn the hard way that boxers are smart and can do obedience up to the highest standard and then some!!!!!!!! After all as far as I am concerned a boxer has looks and brains. The problem with this breed is there are not enough smart/savvy dog people to train them.

Cheers
Boxerkids
Loving parents of Jazzy the boxerclown
Brindle girl with natural ears and docked tail

[kimbub]

Originally posted by boxerkids
I was told by a committee member of my obedience club to not be disappointed if my boxer never passed an obedience trial, after all she is a boxer!!!!!!!!!

The nerve! Boxers are smarter than a lot of people I know! They have a brain, and know how to use it. I admit, some breeds are more eager to please their master, so they do train easier, but where is the challenge in that? Boxers think they are the master, and are really training us!

Just keep training, and prove that committee member wrong!

[JulieM]

Yes, you'll probably get that a lot (and how wonderful it will feel when you prove them wrong ) - Boxers are not "stubborn" or "hard to train," which is what I always hear. They're actually highly intelligent - they just get bored easily! That's why they don't do as well with "traditional" training - they think all that repetition is pointless

[Krikkit]

Originally posted by boxerkids
I was told by a committee member of my obedience club to not be disappointed if my boxer never passed an obedience trial, after all she is a boxer!!!!!!!!! I think people who have this attitude need to learn the hard way that boxers are smart and can do obedience up to the highest standard and then some!!!!!!!!

Oh my goodness - I though that this attitude was disappearing in Australia as we have many diverse breeds competing and doing very well in obedience and agility. You can always get this person to give us a phone call so I can provide details of all the Boxers here who are achieving Ignore this type of thing - I was told by a judge once as I came into the obedience ring that I may as well walk right back out as Boxers were a waste of time. I'm pleased to say we won the class and went HIT (thank heavens it did not go the other way as we have had some less than good moments in the ring which are always my fault and not the dogs)

Originally posted by boxerkids
I have read that 20% of all Boxers are born white. If this is true and white was written out of the standard due to war time Boxers being too visible wouldn't it be just as easy to write white back into the standard.
I can understand some colours being undesirable due to a higher prevalence of genetic disorders, but not due to the fact that they were too visible in wartime.

Actually the color of the Boxer goes back much farther than what was desireable during the wars. During the creation of the Boxer there were many bulldogs from England in Germany. These bulldogs much resembled the German "bulldog" the bullenbeisser of the time except for color. These dogs intermixed improving both breeds but also adding more colors. When the Germans began getting serious about the Boxer they further refined the breed. In order to get back to the German roots of the bullenbeisser and to create a greater difference between the German Boxer and the English bulldog (not todays version) they tried to eliminate the white in the Boxer. The Germans wanted a unique German dog not to be confused with their English cousin. While there may have been some health issues such as deafness that motovated them nationalism had at least as much to do with the Boxer standard. These goals and eventual standard far preceeded even WW1. German Boxers of today are much more "plain" (less white, less flash) than American Boxers. These "plain" (I hate that word because these Boxers are anything but plain) produce fewer white Boxers than Americans do.

[JulieM]

Terry, that's interesting, I hadn't heard that before (or I just didn't asborb it!) I've always heard that the split was more due to the head type, with the founders of the Munich Boxer Klub wanting to avoid any futher movement toward the Bulldog-type head. Do you have a reference for this - I'd love to read it It's kind of ironic, then, that the first Boxer registered in the stud book was the product of a check Boxer and a white Bulldog!