Bull Bashing

[Mike & Nala]

Can't help it. After watching and keeping my mouth shut about it for years. I feel it may have been proven to me yesterday.

Pitbulls are genetically aggressive. I watched a special on them a year ago. It was a smallish pitbull playing with a young girl of about 7 and it started to jump up on her, and she was trying to back off and it kept coming and jumping on her. It looked like it was playing. The girl got a little scared and tried to back up and get behind her mother. The dog jumped around her mother and again jumped up on the girl. The mother pushed between them and pushed the pitbull away; not violently. The pitbull then lunged forward and grabbed the girls leg and held on. It took 3 people to get her released from its grip. She required plastic surgery to repair the damage.

Yesterday at the dog park!!! I am there with Nala and a man is just coming back from his walk with his two adult pitbulls. A woman is heading out with her 5 month old pitbull. The dogs get into a little arguement which errupts into a dog fight. The adult pitbull was trying to put the young 5 MONTH OLD pitbull in its place. Instead the young one attacks and grabs the older one by the neck. The owner of the older one jumps into rescue his dog and the 5 month old pitbull grabs him by the leg and hangs on, teeth fully embedded. He conks the dog on the head with his leash and it calmly lets go and looks for the older dog. Stalks over and grabs him again. I rushed in kicking with my shin, into the young dogs neck, which shocked him into letting go. He stood off from me and decided he didn't want to do that anymore and calmly walked off. THIS FROM A 5 MONTHS OLD PUPPY. However Nala ended up playing with him for awhile after that. Where does that kind of decision making come from in a puppy of that age. My dogs at 5 months were nothing but grinning, slobbering, cringing, kidney beaning babies.


Bottom line; I believe they have suceeded with the pitbull. They have created an animal with little tractability. You might argue with me but, I've seen too much of it. They actually change personalities. Of course all pitbulls aren't like that. But, they were bred to some extent to be like that, and we don't control the triggers.

Some might say that it is the same with all dogs, and that no children should be left with any dog. I agree!! But I know in my heart that they would be safer if my boxer Nala were with them, then if they were alone.

I am very acquainted with pitbulls. Very few days go by without me petting one. I also have two friends with them.
I am not saying all pitbulls are like that. However, it would appear to me and with statistics, that a larger percentage, significant percentage have this characteristic. You could say it is training, upbring, whatever. NO I say, it's in the personality, I have witnessed it too many times. When they get in a fight, or attack, it's to do damage. My Nala has been in at least 15 fights. Damage to other dogs? One puncture wound. Her last fight lasted 15 seconds or more before I could break it up, she was on top and the other owner was screaming, she's killing my dog. Damage to other dog, none. I believe it is Nala's intention to physical pound the other dog with her body, into submission, instead of injuring them. That is the difference. When a pitbull bites there's going to be damage, possibly major.



It POs me, because I see a breed of dog that can and does make a very fine pet. But people are destroying it.

This ought to get a few people riled.



Mike & Nala(Pitbulls lovers)

[Kim Y]

I've been down in the dumps the last couple of days because my dad and stepmother had to surrender their pitbull puppy two days ago. I've tried to help them with training, gave them a copy of Culture Clash, etc., all to no avail. In my opinion though---THIS WAS THE HUMANE SOCIETY'S FAULT. They are both senior citizens and went in looking for a rescue to provide them with companionship. They were directed to Princess a *supposed* 4 month old "terrier-mix" pup. They later learned from the vet that Princess was a Pit and at least a 6-8 month old pup but felt she could be older. Princess's background was unknown but it was known that she had been at the pound for a couple of months as they felt they could place her. My parents absolutely fell for this dog (after being reassured by the HS that she was a completely docile pup). The third time Princess lunged and grabbed my stepmother's FACE with great force, breaking the skin, etc., they made the decision to return her after two months of having her. They've been depressed for days and I'm feeling pretty cruddy too as we know that since they had to disclose the reason for returning her pretty much sentenced her to a death sentence.

I do not, however, blame the pup nor the breed. Sitting in a kennel without any interaction/teaching--how could she learn that this was unacceptable behavior? How could the HS place her in good conscience with my folks? Mind you, I had pleaded with them to let me see the dog before choosing, but we all know how that goes.

I'm not stating any of this to start a war against pits. Again, I do not blame her aggression soley on being a pit. I just found your post ironic and coicidental with our recent situation and the aggression Princess displayed and thought I'd share.

[Mike & Nala]

Yes I know what you mean. I actually love all dogs. My friends have two of them. One is Standoffish and the other absolutely loves me. I can usually overcome a dogs leery attitude towards me, but not this dog. I'm pretty sure he would bite me if I didn't watch myself. I don't really mean for this to be a bull bashing party. I am like I stated previously, irritated with those people who through training, and breeding are ruining a very good dog.

Mike & Nala

[sandy oakey]

Most of the people I've known with pits didn't get them just to have a wonderful pet. Unfortunately, because of the pits reputation, I think a lot of people get them for like guard dogs. One day me and my daughter were at Petsmart and there was a guy there with his pit puppy. My daughter asked if she could pet him and the guy said "No, I'm teaching him not to be friendly with people." With those kind of attitudes I don't know what you can expect from the pit. I visited an LA animal shelter site on the internet one day and the shelter was FULL of pits. It's very sad.

[Linda]

Originally posted by sandy oakey
One day me and my daughter were at Petsmart and there was a guy there with his pit puppy. My daughter asked if she could pet him and the guy said "No, I'm teaching him not to be friendly with people." With those kind of attitudes I don't know what you can expect from the pit. I visited an LA animal shelter site on the internet one day and the shelter was FULL of pits. It's very sad.

AND THIS GUY HAD HIS DOG AT PETSMART?! What an idiot!!! Aggghhhh! That man (and his dog) are a disaster waiting to happen. (Hopefully it's not a child that gets in that dog's way in the future. )
I would have reported him to the manager and had him removed from the store. IMO, there's not place for people like that in public!

Originally posted by Linda

AND THIS GUY HAD HIS DOG AT PETSMART?! What an idiot!!! Aggghhhh! That man (and his dog) are a disaster waiting to happen. (Hopefully it's not a child that gets in that dog's way in the future. )
I would have reported him to the manager and had him removed from the store. IMO, there's not place for people like that in public!

Unfortunately, there are people like that. There was a young boy who was slapping his pit bull puppy in front of a video store, I walked up and asked what he was doing and if I could show him how to pet the dog correctly - he said the same damn thing!

It's these dogs, who are bred, that result in vicious puppies. I heard recently (I don't remember where) that pit bulls are trained to ignore pain - that's why they don't let go…it's really a sad thing. I think there should be laws against certain ways to up-bring your dog - as if that would ever happen…Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't believe *all pit bulls or *all of any breed are bad, vicious, or mean, - it's just that *certain type of upbringing that creates reasons for the stereotyping of the dog.

[crabby69]

About 25 years ago, we got some new neighbors that moved in behind us and shared our back fence. They had a female pitbull named Candy. We had a female Doberman. The fence was only four feet high and it wasn't unusual for one of us to be returning the other's dog to its yard. I didn't know a pitbull from shinola (I was 10 years old) and this dog was really quite friendly.

But let me tell you, because of the attitudes and lack of education of some of the people walking our neighborhood, we both got the occasional earfull for having such 'vicious and ferocious' dogs within the city limits. I couldn't help but laugh, neither could the neighbor. You see, we knew how our dogs were and we knew how they were trained.

There was never an incident in the eight years that these dogs shared back yards, either between the two of them or with an outsider. Sure, they would bark if someone walked by the yards. Most people want a dog that will alert the homeowner to a possible intruder. But I have to agree, this was 25 years ago and a lot has been done to damage the pit breed in that amount of time. Just watch the court shows on TV. Which breed do you suppose is most likely to be on the defendant's side of the courtroom?

Leta
Mother to Clio, flashy fawn, natural eared female with sox.

[Orenda]

One of the veterinarians I worked with wrote a mystery novel called "The Hand That Feeds You". Her name is Lillian Roberts and last I checked you could get the book through Barnes and Nobel. This is a very good book to get real insite on certain types of breeders. It's very sad, but you can lean a lot. All of the places she decribes in the book are real, right in my own back yard. The sad thing is that all Pits are not this way. I will tell you a little story about a misunderstood Pit.

We got a call at 2am that Animal Control was bringing in a vicious dog that was involved in a drug raid. When the officers came in the dog was muzzled and on a choke pole. When asked what happened they said when they went into the back yard after arresting the owner the dog tried to attack. Here was this scared to death dog in a submissive position. We quickly removed the muzzle and the pole and she ran into my arms. All of a suddon my eyes started to burn, the officers neglected to tell us that she had been maced, THREE times. After washing the mace out of my eyes, we realized that this girl was nursing pups. After much convincing the officers went back to the house, and sure enough there were five puppies in the back yard. All she was doing was trying to protect her puppies. This was a big case of misunderstanding.

People need to remember, no matter how sweet some are, these dogs were bred for one reason only, TO FIGHT! There is no way you can ever be sure that this inbred mentality will not someday turn on the owner, or a neighborhood child. I was first totally against the banning of the breed out here in California, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's the only way to stop people from continuting to breed them for the wrong reasons.

[Lisa M]

Originally posted by Mike & Nala

Pitbulls are genetically aggressive.

... They actually change personalities. Of course all pitbulls aren't like that. But, they were bred to some extent to be like that, and we don't control the triggers.

You could say it is training, upbring, whatever. NO I say, it's in the personality, I have witnessed it too many times. When they get in a fight, or attack, it's to do damage. ... When a pitbull bites there's going to be damage, possibly major.

This ought to get a few people riled.

Mike & Nala(Pitbulls lovers)

Yes, the breed was designed by man (just like all breeds of dog have been designed by mankind) to do precisely that - bite down hard and don't let go. It isn't something in the personality and all pits were bred specifically to be that way. It isn't that they are mean or more aggressive, it is that when they bite (and all dogs have the potential to bite) someone or something will most likely be hurt. Isn't it something like 5000 or 500 pounds of pressure per square inch in a pit bull's bite? They aren't "thinking" about this or planning it, they are just biting and when they do, again thanks to man's design, they don't let go.

After Casper's first run in with a leashed pit bull at the dog park, I've decided that he and Sumi simply will not be allowed to play at the park if any pit bulls arrive. I wouldn't let kids in my care play with or near them - even under supervision. This is because I understand the damage they can do when they bite and I will not place any life in my hands in harm's way.

What is a problem is the irresponsible dog owners who like the idea of having a dog capable of doing serious damage that have become pitbull owners who place their dogs in situations in which a child or another dog is likely to be harmed when a fight ensues. Our old neighbor always had pits and when neighborhood kids were coming to the house, the dog was placed in the basement with a gate across the steps, the dog sat or slept on the top step wagging his tail and we could give him a pat on the head with permission from the owners. They did not want their dog to ever be in a position to inflict any damage on us. Now that I've grown up, I realize that they were responsible pit owners; I think many pit owners are not responsible considering the breed's powerful bite.

I'm wondering if that is the way you feel about pitbulls then why would you let Nala play with a pit at all and especially one that had just attacked another dog? Those of us who are educated about the pitbull should just keep our dogs and kids away from them. I think this will do alot to discourage the irresponsible owners who show up with pits at parks and playgrounds, don't you?

Why would you want to get people "riled"? The purpose of the board is to have dialogue and share thoughts, advice and experience. It seems to me the spirt of the board is not for us to try to argue for the sake of argueing.

[Amy Lyn]

This controversy is so sad. I have nothing against the pitbull breed itself. I think pitbulls can possess some loving qualities. However, naturally or manmade, this breed has negative qualities that cannot be ignored. Do I think a pit can live an entire life free from aggression? Yes, I do, but it takes a very responsible owner to have that. The irony of this is that man has created something that now it is trying to destroy. We need stricter laws on who can breed and who can buy. Tougher laws on the owners of these dogs who attack.

As to what someone said above about her parents buying a pit from a shelter who later had to be returned. It's easy to blame the humane society for allowing this dog to be adopted out, but please remember, the people working at these shelters are usually volunteers. It is impossible for everyone to know every breed of dog out there, as well as mixes and every breed's personality. If you're going to the shelter to pick up a dog, you take certain risks. You are not going to a breeder who is an expert on her breed and can place you with the appropriate dog or advise you that this may not be the breed for you. You are adopting a dog whom's history usually is a blank sheet to you as well as the volunteers. Do I think that volunteers should and could be more educated about animals in their care, YES. However, that won't happen until the humane society is turned from a non-profit organization to a business organization. Most non-profit's don't have the funding or enough donations to run well as it is, let alone employ experts on every breed. However, I am very sorry that this experience happened to your folks. We had the same situation happen to us with a dog that we adopted from the shelter. I'm not trying to upset anyone either. Just wanted to express my opinion.