HELP

[George & Charmin]

I posted this complaint in the training forum, but if anyone here can help too, please let me know. Here goes.....I hope no one takes offense to this post. I realize everyone here loves their dog(s), and i'm sure you all have perfectly loving and wonderful "furbabies". I once was optomistic, anxious, and rather happy about bringing our boxer into our home as a part of our family. Xaiver came home aprox. the 1st week in Nov. We routinely went to the breeders home to visit and give him toys prior to the homecoming so that he would be adjusted or at least comfortable around us before being separated from his littermates and mommy. We interviewed countless Vets until we found one that was perfect for our new baby. To make a long story short, we looked forward to having him love us and our 2 babies ( 6 & 2 yrs old). it was suppose to be wonderful! I joined this site before he even came to live us b/c i wanted to research the breed and make sure we weren't jumping in head first. however, our little darling is now 9 1/2 wks old, weighs aprox.15 lbs and is a horror to have in the house. My husband( who never had a pet as a child) is in total denial about how Xaiver is wreaking havoc in the house. For starters, he bites everyone. We were told this was because of puppy 'teething'. I didn't believe it but i accepted it.... Until now Because he tries to bite if you attempt to put him in his kennel! We were advised to buy a prong collar for training, until he's 10 wks and is able to have formal training. It doesn't work.! He still tries to bite. He jumps on my children after being told not to. even though his is playing with them, it is not something either of them likes! He barks at us, he tears up everything he can get his hands on, he attempts to eat out of the trash can (even though he eats more than enough) he digs holes in the backyard, and he still pees in the house. I hate to crate him, but he's so out of control that i put him there as a form of time out. Last night, i thought about all the time i had to put him there over the course of the day and it made me cry. I don't want to alienate him from us, but GOSH, it's easier for him to be there than to be out wreaking havoc on everyone. We need help or Xaiver is going to have to leave our home. We love him, but we also have kids who are very young and i don't want their concept of pets ruined by his outrageous behavior. I am open to all suggestions. We did months of research before we decided on this breed. the reason we choose boxers is b/c of the "supposed" love for family and KIDS! HELP....

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malinda
Boxer Buddy
Posts: 256
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2000
posted 12-20-2000 12:47 AM
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I feel your frustration and don't give up. Megan was what I would have referred to as a terror for the first month. Never having had a dog when I was growing up I often had moments when I thought I was way over my head. She cried for days, chewed on everything and did a lot of jumping.
Part of the key is patience, persistence and practice. When Megan bit me, when she was playing I held her mouth shut and said "no biting mama". When she jumps and she still does at 7 months old, I tell her "no jumping".

My husband had a hard time with the digging aspect and to this day I laugh. No offense it is a dog and dogs dig. I just take that as part of her life. We set up boundaries as to where she can dig and it seems to be working.

As for housebreaking use the crate, it is a god sent. It helps a lot in training them. I hated putting Megan in there and if anyone can testify to how hard dogs are to crate train I can. Megan barked at the crate, protested about going in it for months. I really thought she would never crate train but now she doesn't think twice about it. The other thing is your puppy is still young, the bladder is not fully developed.

Dogs take a lot of care and time to get them the way you want them. It would be great to bring a dog home and have it crate trained, not chewing on everything, not jumping and not doing anything else you want it to do. That would be a perfect world and we are not a perfect world by any means.

I hope I didn't discourage you, my point is the puppy is young he needs love, boundaries and training. I think obedience school would work great, when he is older enough to go. Until than maybe you could check into having a trainer come into your house, if you feel the need to do training before hand.

Chances are it will get better. Hang in there.

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Mom of Megan-flashy, female, fawn boxer. Natural ears and docked tail. Born 5/23/00.
<A HREF="http://people.ne.mediaone.net/younme/megan.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://people.ne.mediaone.net/younme/megan.htm </A>

[This message has been edited by malinda (edited 12-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by malinda (edited 12-20-2000).]

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misty
Boxer Pal
Posts: 1
From: friendswood, tx usa
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 12-20-2000 01:19 AM
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George and Charmin-
I know how you feel. My husband and I spent weeks researching different breeds and we both decided on the BOXER b/c of their good nature with people and children. I've also been told they are very loyal companions. We got Wrangler when he was 7 weeks old from the breeder and now he is 7 months old. When we first brought him home, he would bite everyone and anything! He was very dominant, growling and jumping, but was very good about not have accidents in the house.
I enrolled him in puppy kindergarten (obedience class) at 3months old. I was told he was too young, but I did it anyway. He was very responsive. Boxers are very smart, but I have to keep in mind he is still a puppy. In fact my husband will sometimes yell at him when he misbehaves and I have to remind Jason(my husband) that even though Wrangler is 55lbs he is still a puppy and still mentally developing. He stays in the house and we crate him 8-9 hours a day due to work.
He loves Peanut Butter. I started a routine that in the mornings before I leave for work after he has eaten and gone outside he immediately goes to the crate for a treat. I bought a "kong" toy at petsmart, rubber toy with an opening to place treats or peanut butter or both in. I put a big spoon of peanut butter in the kong and that is what he can have in the crate. Now when you pull the pb jar out of the fridge he takes off for his crate. The obedience class taught us how to practice with him everyday to learn, sit, down, stay, and come. He love people but does not do well around other dogs. He is a very dominant dog, even with us sometimes. I plan to enroll him in another obedience class after the first of the year, just so he can be socialized with other dogs. Good luck with your boxer! It gets better!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...However, our little darling is now 9 1/2 wks old, weighs aprox.15 lbs and is a horror to have in the house. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How old was your boy when he came to you?
It really important for puppies not to leave their litter before at least 8 weeks, and 10-12 weeks is preferable. That's because there is some really important socialization that goes on ath this time that *cannot* be reproduced by human interaction. Inadequate litter socialization can lead to seperation anxiety, and even aggression later in life.
Further, a responsible breeder knows this. If your breeder allowed you to take your pup before 7-8 weeks, they have probably not put any thought into their breeding.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For starters, he bites everyone. We were told this was because of puppy 'teething'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt it at this age, but puppies, like babies, are oral. Know the difference between play and aggression, and begin teaching bite inhibition *now*


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Because he tries to bite if you attempt to put him in his kennel! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Begin now, feeding him all meals in his kennel, followed by a good hour or so's nap. Crating should be a positive experieb=nce, and food is your best tool!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We were advised to buy a prong collar for training,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*untill* he's ready for training???
Let him be a puppy! Don't expect too much, and let him know what's appropriate.
Some may dissagree with me, but every *innappropriate* bite would be met with a sharp NO!, a stern look and at least total ignoring for 10-20 minutes (not crating), and perhaps a roll on the back.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> He jumps on my children after being told not to. even though his is playing with them, it is not something either of them likes! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your kids need authority over the pup.
Their cammands (on their part) need to be consistent, meaningful commands, and (on the pup's part) need to be respected. High pitched screaming (as in NO!Mommy! Get Him Offf EEEEEE! EEEE! EEE!) have no effect on any dog besides perhaps simulating a wounded bubby.

Your kids should be in charge of feeding puppy. With your help (at first), they should give the "sit" command. Puppy should learn to wait till the child places puppy's food in the crate and gives the "OK" for puppy to eat. He who holds the food bowl largely holds dominion over the dog. If your puppy associates the kids with the food supply, their words have far more meaning.

Remember-NO food or treats without work (sit for cookies etc), especially on the kids part. No hitting. NO puppies allowed on the furniture with the kids! Kida are higher up on the ladder than puppy is, and until both puppy and kids can do this on their own, you must reinforce appropriate status behaviors.

Just my thoughts, for what they're worth...


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Cathi
boxer411@grm.net
North Missouri Boxer Rescue
www.grm.net/boxer411/

[Linda]

Cathi has some excellent advice.

I know it is very hard to have a young, energetic puppy with young kids.
My youngest daughter (4 years old) had a "love/hate" relationship with Bailey when we first got her. Bailey would chase her and chew on her feet, her pajamas, her hands... And my daughter would run away, waving her arms, and screaming. This made it worse!!!
No matter how many times I told my daughter to stop, she would continue. It's hard to "train" a child AND a puppy.

Now--after a year--my daughter calls Bailey "Babeee" and wants her to sleep in her bed with her.

Don't give up yet. Any puppy (regardless of breed) is a handful.
Do your best to have a regular routine with your children and puppy--feeding, playing, crate time, potty, etc. I think this will help in letting Xaiver understand his place in the family.
At 9 1/2 weeks, he's probably still a little young to expect a lot from housebreaking. Be consistent--it will come.

Good luck!! Please keep us posted on how things are going.

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Linda
Remy -DOB 6/2/92; white male w/brindle patches;
Bailey - DOB 10/16/99; flashy brindle female
Shannon - 1992?-12/7/99 Flashy fawn; We miss her!

[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 12-20-2000).]

[armycop]

Both my Bxer did the same things as pups.First off the biting is from teething, try buying some pig ears for him to chew on, they help alot. Dn't allow him to bite on you . When he does grab his muzzel and hold it close and tell him no. Now for the digging you can buy a probuct call "No Dig" or you can fill the holes he digs with his poop. He won't want to dig there anymore. And for the jumping, well Boxers are very loving dogs and it is their way f trying to give you a hug. All the boxers I've owned or been around(9) have all done it.You can try to push them off you and tell him no. You may also try obedience training. Check you phone book for local trainers.Do you have a fenced back yard? Try putting him outside during the day weather premitting if all else fails. This works great for housebreaking and he won't bite or jump you if he's outside. Good luck

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Tyson 2 y/o flashy reverse brindle male, cropped, docked, dewclawed
Jade 6 m/o flashy fawn female, docked, dewclawed

[Tulsa-Dan]

There are some awfully good suggestions here. I agree with Malinda in that when I got Maggie home, about 3 weeks into it, I wondered "What the hell were you thinking?!" I thought too that I was in way over my head and I'd never get Maggie trained or housebroken. I was miserable for a couple of weeks UNTIL I got a copy of "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson (available at most bookstores online for about US$15). It saved my sanity and Maggie is so beautifully behaved now I can hardly believe she's the same little biting, growling, barking, peeing and pooping little dog I brought home at 8 weeks old.

I highly recommend getting a copy of this book, reading it and applying the techinques taught therein.

As for all the things you describe, they seem to me to be very typical Boxer puppy behaviors. Yes, they bite because they are teething and that's the way they play with other pups. You have to teach them when it is appropriate to bite, what is appropriate to bite and how to "soft bite." There is ample material available on the internet on soft biting that you should be able to find a method that works for you. I used the walk away and ignore her plan when she bit me. I'd just make a loud "OUCH" and get up and walk to another room and ignore her for a few minutes until she "got it" that when she bit me, play stopped. It worked very well.

One other thing to remember: These things take time. Your teaching the dog not to bite or jump on the kids will take time and patience and consistency on the part of EVERY MEMBER OF THE FAMILY. This is extremely important because the dog has to learn where it stands in the "pecking order" and all humans, even the kids, are higher on the ladder than the dog.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet. Just be patient and persisent and in a few more weeks you'll see real improvement in your pup's behavior. Boxers are extremely smart and quick to learn if you are teaching them correctly.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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Dan from Brooklyn
Proud Pappa to Maggie Mae, Born 6/16/00
Flashy Fawn (Red), docked tail, natural ears.
Pictures: http://maggie.artshost.com

[LPratt]

I was so sad when I read your post,you sound frustrated and your puppy sounds like he is, well, being kinda a puppy.

He is very young, and despite the many controversies surrounding which sex is easier to housebreak, I think what you have to keep in mind is that your puppy is trying to understand what you want him to do. He is factoring in the biological changes in his own little body (when his bladder matures enough to hold urine) which means that there will be gains and losses made in the housetraining as he grows. There are some great websites like:
www.perfectpaws.com www.inch.com/-dogs/housebreaking.html
and a good one about being your puppy's teacher: www.erinet.com/ghost/teachpuppy.htm
this one offers some excellent training books and videos: www.dogwise.com

I also suggest you take him to puppy kindergarten...you will find great ways to really develop a connection with your puppy and laying the foundation for desirable behavior.

His crate should not be used as a "time out" he will begin to associate it with punishment instead of safety and you will not be able to get him in there without a fight....and he'll be miserable (same with you!).

Having a puppy is like having a baby...that speaks a totally different language and has different ways of doing things.The key is learning how to communicate what you want, learn how to listen to their language and show him the way you want things done.

Good Luck-

Leezah & Angus

[BoxerLuv]

Wow, I can really feel your frustration and your family's. Hang in there though. It does get better. Our female is now 10 months old. We got her when she was 6 months old but she had almost zero training. It was hard for the first couple of months. Not only was she settling into our new home and routines but we had to adjust to her also. Two of the biggest things we had to work on were no biting and no jumping. These are not necessarily Boxer traits but puppy traits. I once had a Lab that never mastered the concept of no jumping. Anyway, your puppy is still pretty young but it is never too soon to start teaching him what is acceptable and what is not.

I also agree that Boxers love to give hugs and I enjoy it when I am not dressed and ready to head off to work so I decided to teach ours two commands. The first and most important was "OFF". This works for Off the people, off the furniture, off the bed, etc..I then taught her "UP". This means up on me for a hug, up on the bed, etc... We are still working on the up command but she has definately gotten the off command. Also when comming home I never touch her until she sits first. That is usually when she is most excited and wants to jump her greeting to us. I would say within two days she was sitting as soon as I walked in the door before I even had to say sit.

One thing I have found works very well and can be fun for the kids (depending on how old they are) is to make the dog work for everything. This may take some time to train him because he is young but in the long run he will be a better companion. I also think that dogs, like kids crave and need structure. This means he sits for his dinner, sits or downs for attention, sits for toys and treats, etc...

Now for the biting, I have heard putting a 50/50 mix of water and vinegar in a squirt bottle is helpful. When he goes to bite you give him a little squirt. Hopefully he won't like the taste and soon stop. It isn't harmful but works. Also, binacha works for this.

Hang in there and please think about obedience training. It helps your puppy know what you expect and how to communicate with you.

[Lava Linda]

If he's really only 9.5 weeks old now, then you did get him too young. I might suggest you look for materials that address that subject, specifically. He might have different training needs than a pup removed at 12 weeks.

Time and maturity, alone, will help. My pups didn't get much training their first year. I was in the midst of a painful divorce, and although they got a lot of love, they didn't get much training. Somehow, by a year old, they turned wonderful! I think they're so sensitive, they read my displeasure with the destruction (sitting on the floor and crying was probably a good clue), so little direct discipline was needed. Today, at 5 years old, they're very obedient, easy dogs, and to be honest, I feel like I "got away with something!"

Maybe YOU should try sitting on the floor and crying (if you haven't already). It might work!!

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Linda, proud mother of:
Gilroy - 5 y.o. brindle male, natural ears, gentle as a lamb :-)
Purdy - 5 y.o. spayed flashy brindle, natural ears and tongue
Michaela, Boss, Tonka, Maybe, Woof, Jack, Deacon, Casey, Crystal, Flo, Kimba and Poquito, waiting at the bridge.

[ninersneal]

Roxanne went through "psycho puppy" stage, she did grow out of it. One thing I did was everytime she would bite we would put something in her mouth she was allowed to chew on. Puppies need to chew and this let her know what was acceptable, always followed by a "good girl". My vet suggested we try holding her head to the ground with a stern "no" when biting. she told us this is what the mother dog will do when she has had enough.

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Rambo- beagle mix waiting at the bridge 12/85-1/2000
Roxanne- beautiful brindle born 12-99

[Lisa M]

Your dog sounds like a perfectly normal puppy. Give him some time! I think despite your feeling that you researched the breed, it sounds like you didn't research the training that goes into having a boxer in your life. I would recommend getting him enrolled in puppy obedience at your local petsmart right away. This is really more so that YOU can learn what you need to do to teach your pup what he has to do. Your expectations sound too high to be frank. He is still a baby. Just like with human babies, their development and coordination will increase with time.

Remember that a dog is after all an animal, they have no morals, in order for them to live with us in our homes, we must teach them what we expect of them and they will reward us with a lifetime of love, unquestioning devotion and delight. We must teach them in a way that they understand what we are asking of them.

A great book for starters is "The Art of Raising a Puppy" by the Monks of New Skete.

I can't imagine expecting a pup to be house broken in the amount of time you've had your little fella. As far as biting goes, he may not be getting the right signals from you about what he's supposed to do. Everyone in the house has to use the same method, when Sumi was a pup, we gave her a sharp no and took our hand away. I would immediately re-offer her my hand and if she went to nip it again - another sharp NO. I would repeat the process until she ignored, or licked my hand. She was broken of the habit quickly, but she's a fast learner. With jumping up on the kids, try keeping him on a leash when they are having a supervised play session that way you can control the pup and gently tug him away before he jumps up onto the kids. This way he'll learn and the kids won't be overwhelmed by him.

You are right that boxers are great family and kid dogs, but they take a lot of consistency and patience when it comes to training. They need a strong Alpha figure in their lives, I've yet to come across a boxer book that fails to mention these boxer traits.

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mama to:
-Sumi, lab mix "pound puppy"
-Casper, white boxer rescued from the Dade County Animal shelter