Thank you!!

MelissaB · #1 22nd February 2011, 09:26 AM

Because of all the recent posts about thyroidism I had one of my boxers, Whopper, tested. He's had itchy & dry skin, skin discoloration, been very anxious (whiney!!), cold, a little less inactive than our other boxer for about a year now. We had just chalked it all up to allergies so we had switched to raw and doing our best to cope. BUT his results came back today and he is low-low normal. The vet actually said it was weird because his T4 was low and something else was low normal and something else was normal. (I'll have to see the results, I don't remember from the phone call) The vet didn't really want to treat him since he'll only be 3 in march and he's not overweight, just re-check in 3 months. But I convinced him I wanted to treat and just see. So we're doing a low dose, 0.7 I think, once a day for 3 months!
I just wanted to Thank everyone for opening my eyes! A thyroid problem has never crossed my mind or even mentioned by his vets!

Caney Creek · #2 22nd February 2011, 10:17 AM

That's great news!

Hope the medication works for him!

chrystel · #3 22nd February 2011, 12:59 PM

wow that's great!!!

i can't wait to have mine tested next week!

Cami · #4 22nd February 2011, 01:49 PM

I'm glad your vet is willing to try the meds but.....
Manufacturer states that thyroid meds (Soloxine--brand NOT generic) should be given twice a day. Once every 12 hours for 4-6 weeks and then a post pill test done (re-check blood work at a specific time of day based on when the medication is given).
From the manufacturers website:
Dosage:
"The initial recommended dose is 0.1mg/10lb (4.5kg) body weight twice daily. Dosage is then adjusted by monitoring the blood levels of the dog every 4 weeks until an adequate maintenance dose is established. The usual maintenance dose is 0.1mg/10lb (4.5) body weight once daily."

Dosing only once per day at 0.7mgs would make me think (I am not a vet) that your boy weighs 70 pounds (or close to it). The problem with giving the ENTIRE daily dose at one shot when first placed on the medication would be that he will be hit with the full effects of the drug all at once instead of keeping his levels at a somewhat even keel (for lack of a better description).

This medication sharply increases ones metabolic rate. If your guy weighs around 70 pounds dosing at 0.7mgs won't hurt him but you take the risk of it not helping as well as it could. Especially in the beginning when starting the drug. What your vet is suggesting is treating a 70 lb dog a maintenance dose AFTER effects are seen and gained IN a patient that is given a full blow hypothyroid diagnosis (your guy hasn't). I don't know if I am doing an adequate job of explaining! Your vet is prescribing the 0.7mgs as a starting dose to "see" if it makes any difference in a dog that hasn't even been diagnosed with hypothyroidism based on the test results. Not going the traditional route of dosing twice a day or starting with a lower dose for a potential dog with thyroiditis (precursor to hypothyroidism).

The levels are low normal. My girls were as well. She weighed 60-ish pounds depending on the day. We started her out on 0.2mgs twice a day (or equivalent to a dogs dose who weighed 20 pounds). I noticed significant improvement on various symptoms within 24 hours. Post pill testing showed the levels had increased but not enough so the dosage was increased to 0.3mgs twice a day. Like your guy she wasn't full blown hypothyroid and full dosing wasn't required to up her levels.

Not trying to suggest your vet doesn't know what they are talking about just sharing my understanding of the drugs use in Boxers and my girls experience with it. Boxers are just "different" when it comes to a lot of medications.

You are not me but if I were you.....I'd ask the vet about splitting the 0.7mgs in half and giving the same amount he suggested only spread out during the day (12 hours apart and either 1 hour BEFORE meals or 3 hours AFTER). Best utilized if dosed this way and full benefits of the drug can be achieved. I'd also ask to have the testing done prior to 3 months.

Just my 2 cents!

MelissaB · #5 22nd February 2011, 02:32 PM

His results were T3 0.882 (nrm 0.5-1.4) T4 1.19 (nrm 1.5-3.1) free T4 8.813 ( nrm 8-33) & endogenous TSH 0.152 ( nrm 0.1-0.4)
They gave me Thyrosyn 0.7mg every 24 hours. So should I give him half a pill twice a day to get better results? They are scored tablets so they won't hard to split.
Whopper weighs 65-70 lbs. I thought he was getting a low dose but he's actually getting a full dose, isn't he?

Gatorblu · #6 22nd February 2011, 03:17 PM

I am so glad you were able to get help of your boy! My boy, Thor has hypothyroidism, and at 76 lbs gets 0.7 2x a day. It was my understanding as well, to dose twice a day to get and even amount thru out the day. I would call the vet back and ask about splitting the pill and giving 1/2 a pill every 12 hours. I think that would benefit your pup the most.

Cami · #7 22nd February 2011, 03:23 PM

Most often for a dog diagnosed with hypothyroidism they are dosed at 0.1mg per 10 pounds of body weight, twice a day. A 70 pound dog would typically receive 0.7 mgs twice a day.

In your boys case he is receiving a 1/2 dose to start treatment. It is a FULL dose but only given once per day. That is a good and bad thing. He is receiving the right amount ONCE per day for a dog that might have responded well to therapy AFTER twice per day dosing had increased his numbers and alleviated his symptoms. I personally don't think the dose is right for a dog that is just starting meds and isn't full blown (below normal) hypothyroid. Again, I am not a vet and can only give my opinion. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that IF he were diagnosed with hypothyroidism (based on test results/symptoms) he would be started at a certain dose. Re-checked in 4-6 weeks and then meds adjusted if need be based on those results. After a year (or so) and with additional testing he could potentially be placed on a maintenance dose of administering only once per day but you are a long way from that, IMO.

Thyroid meds reach their peak performance between 4-6 hours after administering. Not saying the medication isn't still working to some degree or effective after a certain period of time but that it is safe to assume that when you reach 12 hours plus OUT from giving it that it isn't going to be as beneficial (powerful/strong) as those 4-6 hours after first dosing.

When you do a post pill test they will (should tell you) that you need to have the blood drawn anywhere from 4-6 hours after the medication was given. They will even ask you what specific time it was given and then do the math when they test to see what the optimal dosing should be (based on the results in relationship to time given). I always split the difference to keep everything the same and had my girls blood drawn at 5 hours post pill.

I'd not go against your vets instructions but it is very much in your right to ask questions, ask about things you have read/heard about and even suggest a different strategy of treatment if you feel inclined. It is their responsibility (IMO) to make it 100% clear to the owners how they came to a specific plan of action. He is FOR SURE well under the 50% range....meaning that you want to see him OVER the 50% mark with regards to testing. There are many threads here on BW on how to work the formula to obtain the 50% range based on his numbers.

MelissaB · #8 22nd February 2011, 03:28 PM

Okay. I called the vet and explained that he's basing his strategy off of a Missouri study. Where it doesn't matter if you do once or twice a day dozing especially for trials. I don't know really but he still wants me to do once a day. So I guess I'll be trying that for awhile. I'm just glad we got the meds lol and I'll watch him and see how he does.

Cami · #9 22nd February 2011, 04:54 PM

If the thyroid is causing his issues and you start supplementing, even with what your vet has prescribed you will FOR SURE notice a difference in not only behavior but in other side effects.
As early as 24 hours is not uncommon!

whiskers · #10 22nd February 2011, 09:23 PM

It's amazing what we find out when we do our own research! I wonder how many boxers on here would have undiagnosed hypothyroidism if it weren't for this forum? I know Juno would be one...
I even have my friend wanting to get her cocker spaniel tested, lol she always thought I was crazy when I would talk about thyroid, but now that Juno is on the mend she's curious if her dogs "issues" could be caused by his thyroid.

You'll probably notice a difference in him pretty quickly. I had a different dog by the 3rd day of medication.