Deformed back

[Bex_n_Ballou]

Mornin'

My Boxer has a really strange back, it bends upwards sort of, does anyone know what might have caused this??? He's not in pain or anything, and it doesn't really restrict movement though. Can anyone help? He's a rescue so I know nothing about his history.
Bex n Ballou

I've attatched a file which shows his back, not too good a pic though.

[Sabrina Jay]

He has what is called a *roached back*. This is pretty common in boxers that do not *slant* correctly for the standards. Unless he has problems, don't worry about it.

Here is a link for the boxer standards that shows pictures.

http://www.worldwideboxer.com/

[MandyMom]

My Casey's back is the same way, I never noticed it till Hubby pointed it out. I had read this post before and was able to reasure him it was ok.
Thanks for the info!

[Marimat]

Hello Bex and all

Ballou does in fact have what Sabrina described as a "roach" or "roached" back. It is indeed a fault in the boxer standards which all call for a level ("straight") topline.

So why do I find this interesting. The answer to this is because I find the subject of toplines to be somewhat enigmatic.

DISCUSSION 1

In the German Shepherd Dog, a topline like Ballous would be described as a "hooped" topline and is the most accepted topline for a GSD in many GSD circles. In the boxer of course we want the topline to be level.... well this is what the standards require

There is one big intrinsic difference between the GSD and the boxer

GSD is one of the half dozen or so naturally occuring breeds. The boxer is man made.

When one visits a doctor, physiotherapist, chiropractor or the like you will usually see charts and models of a normal human skeleton around the place. When one takes in these normal spines one notes that the curves are always in the same place. Any deviation from the norm is a deformity, be it a kyphosis, scoliosis, spondylolisthiasis or whichever. These deformities cause pain and immobility in the human.

Dogs, until human intervention, evolved in a similar way in that there are certain normal curvatures that nature put in place for strength and maximum mobility. Dogs are also one of the only mammals where a standard, written by men and women, is the guideline for breeders to follow. There's no standard for a dolphin; there's no standard for a giraffe; theres no standard for a bandicoot for example. They are left to natures devices. BUt dogs, cats, horses - anything that humanity has a hand in have a written standard, often asking for things which are not ideal in nature. One example is a straight back in a dog. It's not natural, but we want it, because we decree via a standard that this is what our breed will look like.

To hear that Ballou has no pain and no loss of mobility is not surprising at all to me. He may not fit the human written standard for the boxer but his back fits "natures standard" for a dog.

DISCUSSION 2

The boxer standard also asks that this straight back be short. The importance of this is often overlooked by breeders. Simply put a short straight back is stronger than a long straight back. Much like a bridge. The longer you make a straight bridge, the more added support you have to put in place. Modern engineers tend to build bridges these days in a "roached" fashion. Why? Because it is stronger. So a roached back, although incorrect in our standard, is actually stronger than both a short straight back and a long straight back. As we don't want a roach back because of the standard this is what makes it so important that breeders at least strive for a short back as it is the stronger of 2 "evils"

DISCUSSION 3

Bex asked "......what might have caused this??? "

More fuel for the enigma. :-)

In looking at Ballou's pic it is obvious to an educated eye that this roach back is actually a result of a faulty front assembly. It is not a problem with his back at all.

Ballou has a short neck, a short upper arm and a short foreleg. This causes loss of height at the front end. This loss of height means that his spine has to in some way compensate for it to be able to join up to other structures on it's way up to the head. The main structure is the shoulder. So the spine in Ballou and dogs like him has to dip back down to meet the shoulder thus causing this roaching.

It can also be noted that Ballou appears to be longer in hind leg than he is in foreleg. This is evidenced by the fact he is standing slightly wide and slightly "cow" hocked at the rear. His back feet are angled out and his hocks are turned in to face each other. This is to compensate for the lack of front end height but it in turn causes more curvature of the spine and a change of angle to his pelvis (croup). This in turn gives him a low tail set, you can see in the pic how it is not held upright, and appears to be coming out of the back of him.

So with this one doggie, we can see how the effects of one conformationally poor structure has an effect on the "whole"

HYPOTHESIS

In this era current era of boxers, the better breeders are more and more aware of new problems in the breed. There's the heart problems, the thyroid and eye problems, the hip problems etc. But the one that is relevant here is the increasing prevalence of Spondylosis Deformans in boxers.

As breeders try harder and succeed more in breeding animals closely fitting the standard there's a negative to it all, especially in this case of the boxer spine. I don't feel it is any coincidence that this disease is on the rise as the toplines get straighter and longer in the quest for elegance.

CONCLUSION

This is all educational, or meant to be at least. It makes not a hoot of difference to Ballou. He's been rescued, is in a loving home and will live out a normal, hopefully long life. In fact, because he has a topline anatomically in line with what Mother Nature would of required if she wrote the standard he is probably going to have an advantage in not being as prone to so many joint and spinal problems.

Breeders, and I am one, have a lot to answer for.

Matt

PS when going to the link Sabrina provided pay special attention to this page

http://www.worldwideboxer.com/PAGE7.html

All the very good boxers contained here have several things in common, as they should have. However, take a look at the front assemblies of all of these dogs. They are all "high stationed". All have good long forelegs, nice long sloping shoulders and good long uppper arms. They all illustrate how the added height from a correct front assembly and a rear balanced to that front give the required level topline with a slight slope.

MC

[Alisha Mobley]

Thanks Matt...it's not so often you get to see a pic showing the traits that are *not* desired in the breed and have them explained and pointed out makes it even better.

[BxrKay9]

Firstly, Hi Bex! give Ballou a big kiss and cuddle, he's beautiful!!

I hope you're not offended by all this talk about Ballou's faults. I know Matthew certainly didn't intend to make you feel bad about Ballou. From a breeders perspective, it's interesting to talk about this kind of stuff and I hope you found what Matthew had to say, both interesting and educational.

Matthew, as always, a well written and thought provoking post.

I'd just like to point out one thing though, I hope you don't mind.

You wrote:
GSD is one of the half dozen or so naturally occuring breeds. The boxer is man made.

From the research I've done, the GSD is not a naturally occuring breed. I copied the following from one of the many Internet sites that discuss the GSD history (the dates on different sites differ only slightly).

"The German Shepherd Dog is a fairly recent breed in the breeding history of dogs, having been developed almost entirely in the 1900s. On April 3, 1899, Max von Stephanitz attended one of the earliest dog shows for all breeds ever held in Germany. On that day, von Stephanitz purchased a herding dog he observed at the show, and he decided to form the Verein fur Deutsche Schaferhunde,( S.V.). Max von Stephanitz was named the organization's first president and remained so until his death in 1936. The dog he purchased that day, Horand von Grafrath, was designated S.Z.1, the first German Shepherd Dog to be registered with the Verein. The Verein became a driving force in the canine world and the largest specialty club.

Max von Stephanitz and the Verein fur Deutsche Schaferhunde ( SV ) had a goal to develop a dog of uniform structure and working ability. Under the guidance of Rittmeister Stephanitz began the formation of the modern day German Shepherd Dog."

Interestingly, the Basenji, which dates back around 5000 years and is truly one of the few naturally occuring breeds, doesnt have a roach back but has a straight back.

Kay

[Bex_n_Ballou]

Hi Kay, and everybody else who's taken so much interest in my message
First of all, Kay, I am not at all offended by all this, I posted the message, I wanted answers, and I was prepared to accept what everybody would write. BTW, I'll give Ballou a big hug, thanks You be sure to do the same thing with your babies
Well, I know that Ballou will never be let within two metres of a showring LOL but what the heck, we love him to death anyway. However, it's still important to know such things about your dog. Thank you Marimat, you have actually provided me with rather valuable information. Smooch your babies

K everyone, chow!