Vet thinks puppy should be put down!! Help!!!

[alisonCO]

Hi. Someone that I know has a 9-10 week old puppy. She and her husband have had animals before, but this boxer puppy is their first puppy. They have been having issues from day one - here are a couple examples:

"#1 - Last night husband came home and took a nap in the bedroom so the dog wasn't able to see him for about an hour. I could hear the dog thrashing around in the cage so I knew he thought that husband wasn't home. I came out to check on him and that dog had peed from one end of the crate to the other. On the pillow, the toy, the bone, everything. Also, from him jumping all around in it he got it all over the floor and the wall by the crate. When husband came out and the dog realized he was home he became a little angel again.

#2 - The clicker training is working just fine with husband. When he clicks the dog takes the treat and he really seems like he's starting to expect it. When I click and give him the treat he spits it out on the ground then eats it. He won't take it from my hand and eat it. I assume the clicker is useless with me.

#3 - This morning husband put the dogs food in the crate then acted like he was leaving to see how the dog would behave. When he came back into the room that dog had thrown food everywhere.

# 4 - I took him out this morning when I woke up and he went outside and peed. But I guess he saved some because he got in his crate and peed again. He doesn't do that to husband, just me.

I try to play with him but all he does is bite me. When he gets bored with that he goes and tries to pee on the rug. I can't even have a nice play time with this dog. When husband plays with him he plays nicely, he even fetches the toy and brings it back! "

They went to the vet yesterday and this is what the vet said:

"OMG it just gets worse and worse.

We took him to the vet today to have him checked because he came with this messed up little hair patch. We also wanted him checked for worms. So here's the chain of events:

The technician took him into the back for the worm test and when she brought him back she said he needed some serious training because he had an aggressive biting problem.

The vet came in and mentioned what the tech had said about the biting and told us that we needed to be more dominating over the dog. She held him to her chest and held his head against her saying that was a move of domination. Of course the dog didn't like this and was squirming. She then took him and flipped him on his back like a baby and held his head again. He went nuts. He started barking and growling. She told him NO and it just made him more mad. He bit and scratched at her until she finally just put him down. She then told husband to try it and when he did the dog also went nuts. He scratched him to the point of drawing blood.

The vet then said the Boxers are usually very docile animals and that his display of such aggressive behavior (coupled with the look in his eye she said was scary) meant that he was not a good dog. She said she would never have him in a home where there was (or would be) children. She said he was a lawsuit waiting to happen and that even if we trained him she would be concerned that he might snap later on. As in, he's playing with one of the kids and crosses the line between play and aggression and hurts them.

She then went on to say that she didn't recommend we invest any more money in the dog and either take him back to the breeder or have him put down! She sent us home and told us that we needed to think about what we were going to do. She didn't even charge for the visit or the test.

When we got him home we tried again to flip him over and he was perfect with husband. He's off and on with me, sometimes fighting, sometimes submitting.

I'm so torn on what to do now! We have an appointment with another vet tomorrow for a second opinion. It just concerns me so much. I've been worried all along about the future with the dog and now I have someone saying it's their professional opinion that he isn't the "kind of dog we need in the world".

What would you do if you were me? We could always take him to another vet and proceed with training but how long do we let this carry on? At what point do we say the training is a success or failure? What would you do if you had a vet telling you to put your animal down?"


I know that this is long, but this is such a terrible situation, I hope that some of you would have some suggestions. Thanks!!!!

[Vela]

Your friend doesn't need to take him to another vet, although a second opinion is an option. Training has to be very consistent with all parties. I think putting the puppy down or getting rid of him is rediclous. Vets are NOT animal behavioral specilaists, they treat illnesses and medical emergencies, not mental or emotional issues generally speaking. I think most really don't know a lot about it. I would not go by a vets opinon to put him down, I would consult a behaviorist and trainer and stop expecting him to be trained in 2 weeks......

Expecting a 9-10 week old puppy to behave like a grown trained dog is simply rediculous. He's a puppy, and barely separated from his mother and litter. They have only had him a couple of weeks, you CANNOT make a judgement on a dog's behavior by then. He hasn't had time to learn very much and it sounds like everyone is expecting WAY too much from him and treating him unfairly. This is my opinion as I don't know the situation, but expecting a 10 week old puppy to be fully trained and not have separation anxiety is simply unfair to the dog. How a vet could make a snap judgement like this on seeing the dog once or twice and him only being a 10 week old puppy is really, well I just don't have words for that that I care to say.

He sounds like a normal puppy, that's what puppies DO. They bite, they pee, they misbehave. It sounds like the people in the situation need some help on how to raise a puppy and what is normal behavior and how to go about training one. Enrolling in puppy obedience is a great idea.

If they really would consider that without thinking it through then perhaps it really would be best to give him back to the breeder or find him a new home rather than putting him down.

[abby's mum]

I am really confused, is this your dog or someone else's. You say it is someone elses but talk about what you and your husband are doing?

It sounds like the puppy is being a normal puupy to me. Puppy do pee where they shouldn't, throw food around, bite, don't always listen to the clicker, etc, etc. You have to train them not to behave that way. I would also suggest searching the boards to positive solutions for training the puppy not to do the bad things rather that old fashioned domination. What the vet said is out dated. Vets don't often no much about training. I would also contact the breeder asking for suggestions and enroll in a puupy obedience class.

[alisonCO]

This is somone else's dog - I put quotes around what she wrote to me. She cannot become a member here because the site is not allowing new people to register. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for your replies.

[courtney323]

Sounds like a typical Boxer puppy to me!

I would suggest your friends (a) find another vet and (b) research the Boxer breed. Maybe a Boxer is just not for them.

But EVERYTHING you said, describes both of my Boxers, as well as almost everyone else I know

Puppies bite when they play, and they play rather aggressive, as they are JUST puppies. They need to learn bite inhibition

Some pups have seperation anxiety when left alone (either in the house or in the crate). Pooping, peeing or chewing their crate is typical

I would hate to see a puppy being put down for being just a typical Boxer puppy. Please have your friends contact a Boxer rescue organization to place the pup in a proper home, if they are unable to deal with this typical puppy behavior. Do not kill it.

[hanley]

You ask what I would do if a Vet. told me to put my pup down over these issues,at 9 or 10 weeks, well here goes! First I would give them a piece of my mind & ask them how they got through vet med school,because everything you said about this pup is normal behavior,at 9 or 10 weeks they are just babies,& the vet. should know that! I would never go back to this vet. or give him another cent out of my pocket!All your pup needs is some TLC & training!I can't believe you or your friend would listen or even think twice about what this idiot vet had to say about putting this pup down for such normal puppy behavior & if you or who ever is not willing to work with this pup, call a rescue group in your area, there are plenty of people who would work through any issues this pup might have at this young age! My 2 cents! Hanley

[EMWAZ]

Well I agree with everyone else and if the people you are talking about don't listen I would get the puppy from them and give it to rescue or someone who is truly prepared to have a puppy. It doesn't sound like the owners have a clue about how a puppy behaves.

[alisonCO]

UPDATE: They went to another vet today and here is what he said:

"We took him to the other vet today and much to our dismay this vet said the same thing. He was diagnosed with aggression. Here's what the diagnosis says: "Pet is fractious and difficult to examine. Pet lunges, bites and vocalizes with any restraint. Not a pain response. Expressed concern to owner about aggression. Discussed potential for a dangerous pet if behavior continues into adulthood.".

He also said that as a parent he would not have this for a family pet because of the high risk. He said that we could invest in training however even with extensive training the animal is predisposed to aggression problems. He recommends that the dog be returned to the breeder or surrender him to a rescue.

The breeder is being unresponsive."

"Do I just ignore it and go one with training and hope for the best? It's always going to be in the back of my mind. I mean, we didn't take this animal in because of anything other than a spot of fur that was missing on his skin. This whole aggression issue came out of how he responded while at the vet.

Maybe he just doesn't like the vet. Maybe he just doesn't like being restrained. What do I do? I don't know how I could keep him and be a responsible parent. But if I get rid of him I look like an irresponsible pet owner. I've had pets, I HAVE pets. They are the most spoiled animals ever. This situation is ripping me up. I can't stand people coming at me like I'm doing something wrong."

[Maniago]

I know has a 9-10 week old puppy.

That statement says everything!! He is a puppy, I can't believe it would even be considered to put down a 10 week old puppy for aggression.

[Poetic_thing]

I def agree with everyone else...this is a puppy you are talking about. My little girl is now 11 weeks, I have been doing clicker training since she was 8 weeks and she really responds well to it with me, DH doesn't do much of it as I am the main trainer as I am with her 85% of the time, once she gets things down better he will jump in and do more training - commands with her. She is just starting to get better with me and biting, but she has a problem with DH. I find when she is really wound up she wants to bite more and it is harder - I then get her involved in a game, give her a chew toy or take her outside and get her running around which tires her out and she then eases up on her biting. When puppy is biting lots, tell them to yell ouch, get up and walk away. The pup will soon learn that type of behaviour gets no attention.

"She held him to her chest and held his head against her saying that was a move of domination. Of course the dog didn't like this and was squirming. She then took him and flipped him on his back like a baby and held his head again. He went nuts. He started barking and growling. She told him NO and it just made him more mad. He bit and scratched at her until she finally just put him down." - Most pups don't like this, especially from strangers - who the heck wants to be confined by someone they don't know?? My girl did the same thing with DH when he put her on her back - I don't have a problem with this, she loves to be on her back with me.

As for the peeing, they need to be totally consistent until the pups starts to get it. After naps & eating straight outside - treats and LOTS of praise. I started by putting my pup outside every 15 minutes until she went. If she went I would wait about 20 - 30 minutes and then go back out. At 11 weeks, she is now good for about an hour - she also goes to the door 90% of the time. Tell them to watch for signs, sniffing and circling - when they see this take puppy out side. When she does pee in the house as they are watching, say NO firmly, carry pup outside and tell him to go. If they miss it, clean it up with vinegar/water/b. soda and make sure puppy does not see it. Puppy will come around, but they NEED to be consistent and totally on top of puppy at all times.

IMO both DW & DH need to get some training, read some books about puppyhood / behaviors and patients. Start with "Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson and also the "Dog Listener" by Jan Fennel. Once again, this is a puppy - they DON"T know any better - they need training and patience.

I also believe, the vet they have...SUCKS!! Good luck and please tell them not to give up on this puppy, it gets better - really it does Keep us posted.