Two Headed Dragon

klmboxer · #1 19th February 2012, 09:47 AM

This is actually my 1st post, following my intro. We just recently got 2 littermate puppies, brother and sister. I know, I know... not the best idea in the world. Of course, like most that do this, from what I've read, we had never heard of this before we got them. If I was to do it all again, I would get 1 and wait 1 or 2 years before getting the second. But what's done is done, and you would have to pry one from my wife's cold dead hands and/or my super kung-fu grip to get us to give either one up now!LOL We love them both the same, but... it is really, really, REALLY hard to raise 2 at the same time. We have the littermate syndrome going on, but as we work with them, it is seeming to get better slowly. I would just like to take the time to give in detail, our experiences with the littermate syndrome, and I/we know that every case will vary, but the reports, and articles really do not go into detail about what you will be facing. They give the basic idea without the details, so here goes... In our case, the advice to separate the 2 in most everything they do is pretty sound. When and if allowed to stay together, they will have no interest in you whatsoever, do not respond to voices, distractions, or most any form of stimuli. All they want to do is be together... and that is ALL!! This makes it very hard to train obedience, potty train, etc. Not to mention how much hard work it entails to do this the right way by separating them. At first, it was like they were actually joined at the hip, because when we first separated them, you would have thought that you tore them apart. Which in their baby minds probably felt like that to them. We started separating them when they were 8 weeks, and now they are 10 1/2 weeks old. We have 2 separate crates, 2 separate feedings/water, 2 separate training sessions/day, take them out to potty separately, 1 on 1 time separately, and pretty much everything in between separately. Now, we do allow them to play together for 20-30 minutes on weeknights, before potty then crate, and on the weekends we have been letting them play together and be together for most of the day, with split crate times throughout the day. The ONLY reason we let them do this on the weekends is we are usually WORE OUT! But it has gotten better in the 2 1/2 weeks that we have had them. The co-dependance that they originally had was so traumatic for us, because it really takes some tough love to rip them apart at first. It is, to say the least, heartbreaking to do! 2 will test every nerve in your body, and then some. One person WILL NOT be able to do this... PERIOD! We just started them in puppy kindergarden yesterday, and it went great! They were so engrossed with all of the new things and new puppies, that they did not even think of one another. And possibly a coincidence, but we noticed last night, for the first time that they actually got separate toys(instead of fighting over the same one), and laid down in separate areas for a few minutes,chewing, before the light bulb kind of clicked about where the other one was. Then it was back to normal. I guess baby steps are what it is all about? Anyway, sorry about the long post, and will give updates as they progress.

Sansal · #2 19th February 2012, 10:10 AM

Wow, thank you for sharing. It sounds like you guys are doing a really great job with them and already making good progress

keep up the good work and post some pictures soon

a lot of work, but how cute, TWO boxer puppies

Roge · #3 19th February 2012, 10:35 AM

I feel for you on one hand and envy you with the other.Roge was 4 last month and my parents got his litter mate who comes to stay whenever they are away, the first time he came to stay they were about 12 weeks old but you know I found it to be no bother as they both were pretty much house trained by then ,they just have so much fun when there together, the first say half an hour is manic as they run and play as if there life depended on it but then it all settles down however they are never more than two feet apart at any given time, every time he comes to stay I hate giving him back and ask my parents ( as in a joke ) are you sure you want him back he is so happy here with his brother but unfortunatly the answer is always the same.

klmboxer · #4 19th February 2012, 02:03 PM

Yep. For sure, FUN is all they want. And it seems that progress is slower with two, but we have to have patience, for the progress has really just started. My wife has more patience(women usually do). I, myself have had to take a break several times, walk outside for awhile, until I could gather my senses. I do know one thing, and that is that I would not like to breed and/or train for a living. My hat is off to the ones that go through this on a regular basis!

TyTysmom · #5 20th February 2012, 10:01 AM

I can only imagine this is what it's like to raise some twin babies! WOW.

klmboxer · #6 21st February 2012, 03:35 AM

I think comparing 2 boxer pups with twin babies is comparing apples to oranges. If you want apples to apples, it would probably be more like triplets!LOL

TimelessR · #7 21st February 2012, 01:20 PM

I feel your pain....My wife and i currently have two littermates. A male and a female tht are 8 months old. We got them when they were 5 months...and found out alot like you did how they LOVE being with each other. We knew what it took to raise one boxer....but two is a bit different. You also cant blame either one if something was chewed that wasnt suppose to unless you see who exactly did it. When it was only one boxer...you KNEW who did it..there was no question about it...lol well maybe it could have been a ninja ;-) But its def twice the love you get too....
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...1/Sunroom1.jpg

ZekeZira · #8 21st February 2012, 02:42 PM

We were in your shoes about 3.5 years ago. We were so exhausted - those puppies NEVER STOPPED! But you get through it. To make our situation worse, we brought ours home when they were 6 weeks old - infants! Goodness...but they were in a bad situation and we knew they were safer with us than where they were. Separate crates, separate food dishes, and one-on-one training were key for us. In another post, I mentioned we did hand feeding for a little while and I really, really think that helped us.

Our two love each other but they are also independent of each other. They also have the same sibling rivalry as human sibs - it's hilarious! If Zeke has a toy, Zira MUST HAVE THAT TOY NOW! And if she has the toy, then Zeke pretty much pouts and sits on her head!

After they potty training is done, you will really breathe easier. Hang in there!

Lizzie · #9 21st February 2012, 04:15 PM

Hats off to those of you who got two littermate boxer puppies - and survived

My experience was a little different - I got Monty at the age of 5 months and Diva was 3 years old at the time and had been with me from the age of 11 weeks. For whatever reason, Monty 'bonded' instantly to Diva, but it took some time for him to bond to me - he just didn't listen to anything or did anything I asked of him. After a lot (and I mean a lot

) of hard patient and consistent work - feeding separately, exercising separately, spending time with each separately - Monty eventually bonded to me - like glue - he was a Mama's boy!

So, I guess it's not always just young 6-8 week old puppies that this happens with

klmboxer · #10 23rd February 2012, 08:39 AM

All the experiences that have been given here are very motivating. Yesterday was bad, and this morning was worse. But they seem to take turns when doing good or bad behaviors. The dependency issue is more than I thought it would be. My patience ran out this morning, and I had to walk away, and let my wife step in. We have them in separate crates, and they are side by side in our living room. It feels like two VW Beetles sitting in the living room LOL. We feed them in their crates separately. While I am feeding one, my wife is keeping the other one occupied in the kitchen, which is separated with a gate from our living room. But... if the one being fed thinks about the one in the kitchen, then feeding is fast, and interest of eating is low. All the one eating wants is to go to the kitchen. This happens about 50% of the time. We do not keep the food out, we feed them at scheduled times, 3 times a day. So we are trying to get the point across that you eat now, or won't eat until the next feeding. Again, this seems to work about 50% of the time. I'd like to know from the ones that have had 2 boxer siblings, did you crate them separately, and, if so, did you keep the crates side by side, or in different rooms? We tried moving one out in the laundry room, and switched Maggie and Brodie out every other day, but the separation anxiety was too much to bare. The one that stayed in the laundry room, no matter which one, went BOLISTIC, to the point that we thought that this was just going to compound the fear and anxiety problems. We tried this for one week, before we put the crates together in the living room again. As far as the anxiety, it is a lot better this way, with a little whining for a few minutes, and then settling down. BUT... this seems to be compounding the dependency somewhat. When we train them completely separate, they do wonderful. But, if the other is visible, forget it! The hardest thing to do, is what the best thing would be, and that is to completely separate them for everything. But, there are not enough hours in the day that would even allow this to happen. And it is impossible to be in the same household and for them to never be in sight distance. At this point, I am so frustrated that my blood pressure is up. I think I am just SO tired, that, that alone, is taking a big toll on my patience. Again, I do know that with patience, and pererverence, that we will make it, and they will one day be the best dogs ever, but for now, all the past experiences posted by op, and the cheering on is what really is keeping me going. Any input from anyone with helpful suggestions is always welcome. Thanks to all.

ZekeZira · #11 23rd February 2012, 09:06 AM

Gosh, I can hear the stress in your post. I remember those days all too well. The exhaustion and frustration is so intense - my husband and I never fought so much as in the first several months of getting Zeke and Zira. Ours were (and still are, actually) crated side-by-side. They also always ate side-by-side, separate dishes but together. Shared water dish. We let them play together outside and with toys in the kitchen, baby gated off from the rest of the house and always under our watchful eyes. WE would play with them, too, fetch and stuff like that. My husband would lay on the floor and the two babies would just jump all over him and lick his face and ears - it really was hilarious!

Your two are still so young...at their ages, I really think we just let ours play and kept them out of trouble at that age and really just concentrated on potty training. We took walks together, trying to learn the leash. We didn't really separate them, except for serious training (sit, down, leave it, etc). At night, I would grab one and my husband would grab the other and we'd settle in on the couch. We took turns getting up in the morning with them so that the other could sleep later and that helped us a lot.

We also took/take ours to a kennel that has doggy day care, starting at a young age - really right after they got their rabies shots. They would play in separate play groups but still sleep together at night. That really helped them to socialize with other dogs and they got to reunite at the end of the day.

Good luck and I'm happy to offer any help I can.

Sansal · #12 23rd February 2012, 09:20 AM

PersonallyI think it's okay to keep the crates next to each other. As long as they do get some time apart (and it sounds like they get plenty) I wouldn't worry too much (your sanity might be more important here, lol) Maybe you could over time increase the distance between the crates and eventually place the crates on opposite sides of the room and some day maybe even out of sight of each other. Could they be fed in their crates at the same time? That might make it a little easier for you.
Keep up the good work